valour

[Monarch]

I'm confused with valour upgrades. Usually I hardly ever upgrade on m2 so havn't looked too much into it. So a couple of points/questions, replies please

• 1 valour upgrade add +1 wep + shield, does it do anything else, like increase morale?
• Why the heck don't my units look all shiny on the battlefield when I stick a valour on, I mean they're getting an armour upgrade within the valour...

Just because I've got a few £££ left over on my new spanish army

[RTKBarrett]

I'm confused with valour upgrades. Usually I hardly ever upgrade on m2 so havn't looked too much into it. So a couple of points/questions, replies please

• 1 valour upgrade add +1 wep + shield, does it do anything else, like increase morale?
• Why the heck don't my units look all shiny on the battlefield when I stick a valour on, I mean they're getting an armour upgrade within the valour...

Just because I've got a few £££ left over on my new spanish army

Morale is an issue that is completely related to the valour upgrades mate. Weapon upgrades only increase attack in melee *even for missle troops* whilst defence upgrades increases a units skill defence. Base defence is protection against everything incl. missles *which skill does not protect against*
They dont look shiny on the field :D as a valour upgrade again is linked to the SKILL of that particular unit, and not his equipment.
If ure going to upgrade a unit i say choose either weapon or defence first as in battle that unit *if in prolonged combat* will eventually get the valour upgrade. If you already have a valour upgrade on a unit i believe it is harder to achieve the second/third valour so therefore it would be more cost efficient?

[CeltiberoMordred]

1 valour adds (theorically) +1 attack skill, +1 defense skill, and adds morale (+2 in previous TW, I don't know how much in M2TW, but it gives a morale boost). It also increases missile accuracy, although is not represented in stats. So, valor represents experience, and not a tecnological advance.

Armor upgrade gives +1 to armor (and therefore troops look shiny), which implies +1 to defense from all directions, and for both ranged and melee attacks. Defense due to valour only gives defense against frontal attacks, and only in melee.

[pike master]

something is wrong about it though it definetly raises morale but the +1 fighting skill at 1 exp thats listed on the unit card doesnt appear to be matching the wepon and armor upgrades or maybe the wepon upgrade has a higher effect than the unit card states. i wonder if anyone has an idea of whats going on here? noticed the same thing in rome about weapon upgrades beating valor upgrades.

[CeltiberoMordred]

IIRC in RTW weapon upgrade really gives +2 to melee attack, although stats only display a +1.

[CeltiberoMordred]

Something I noticed in M2TW:

Adding valour to units:

hobilars v0 = 7 att 7 def

hobilars v1 (bronzze chevron)= 8 att 8 def

hobilars v2 = 8 at 8 def

hobilars v3 = 8 at 8 def

hobilars v4 (silver chevron)= 9 att 9 def
.
.
.
hobilars v7 (golden chevron)) 10 att 10 def

So I guess first step gives at+def+morale, and further only morale, until next chevron.

I wonder if internally it is done so or if each upgrade gives a real boost to attack and defense.

[DESTROYER!]

side question about valor.
is getting 3 chevrons the same thing as getting 1 chevron?

about missile troops. does it matter? everytime i upgrade the valour/weapon the missile damage doesnt seem to increase.

[CeltiberoMordred]

From what stats displays, yes. The only difference could be morale.

From my game experience, v3 units perform better than v1 units in melee, causing more kills and suffering less casualties.

About missile troops, yes. Although missile attack stat isn't raised, you can get at least 3x more kills shooting with v9 troops rather than v0 troops.

[pike master]

yeah thats interesting. i knew that extra valor will increase skill in archers but two things could cause an advantage in infantry or cavalry.

1)the extra valor gives them faster and more competant animations.
2)when morale drops in the battle i.e. when the two units are fighting one will begin to drop to steady, to shaken, to wavering i wonder if each drop in the mood of the unit would have a drop of fighting skill.

i havnt tried multiple chevrons against a sword upgrade because it appears that only one chevron would give you the extra fighting skill and subsequent ones none but i will test this to see if multiple ones will square off better. could be some hidden mechanics but in rome it just didnt work with valor.

[pike master]

yeah thats interesting. i knew that extra valor will increase skill in archers but two things could cause an advantage in infantry or cavalry.

1)the extra valor gives them faster and more competant animations.
2)when morale drops in the battle i.e. when the two units are fighting one will begin to drop to steady, to shaken, to wavering i wonder if each drop in the mood of the unit would have a drop of fighting skill.

i havnt tried multiple chevrons against a sword upgrade because it appears that only one chevron would give you the extra fighting skill and subsequent ones none but i will test this to see if multiple ones will square off better. could be some hidden mechanics but in rome it just didnt work with valor.

[Denali]

Interesting thread... demok says first valor gives you +1 weapon, +1 defence and +2 morale. the second valor only gives you +2 morale. I guess thats how it was in mtw/vi....

Ill make some tests and post here again...

[pike master]

in mtw/vi valor was the name of the game. each valor gave you 1/1/2 you pretty much wasted your money if you got weapon upgrades but in rome and mtw2 weapon and armor upgrades are better.

when i first started playing rome online i couldnt figure out how i was getting stomped so easy by other players and they had an army of flags over their units while i just had a handful. then when i learned about the upgrades working different than in mtw/vi i started winning. it made a huge difference.

[Stoicblitzer]

lolz upgrade spam.

[RTKBarrett]

lolz upgrade spam.

RTW 1.5!!1
Everyone felt it necessary to always put 6 upgrades on their urbans

[Kronos]

RTW 1.5!!1
Everyone felt it necessary to always put 6 upgrades on their urbans

nope not everyone. I didn't use rome at all (except vandalism 3 where i had to )
because since ppl started using upgrades and a potent archer force (around april iirc) my main 1.2 rome army which slaughtered all those rush armies that cropped up soon after the release of 1.5 didn't work quite so well, I couldn't be bothered to have identical armies all the time, so i went back to Sel/Egypt etc which turned out pretty well until everyone else started using egypt again

[Monarch]

lolz looking back. Speaking from bi perspective. Why the hell did we play 12.5k

I mean we all spent like half of that on archer upgrades alone. You'd think we'd just play lower money so less upgrades n less saxon hunters beating eastern archers (I assume this could be applied to 1.5 too...I mean less upgrades...surely just play less money)

Which fool made up 12.5k as best amount?

(omfg thread hijack ftw )

[pike master]

i will admit that upgrading does cause mechanics exploits which reduces a skilled but unknowing person who would otherwise win a battle lose because they dont know how to upgrade or figure out how a peasant unit is taking down their footknights.

to be honest they would be better off taking upgrades out of multiplayer although i understand the opinions from both sides of the issue. i use upgrades to exploit mechanics in the game -zip-