My spies watch movies?

[Brandy Blue]

I think there was a movie called Our Man in Havanna. It was about a spy who made phoney reports to impress his bosses. For example, he photographed the inside of a vacuum cleaner and claimed it was a photo of an enemy secret weapon.

Well, I wonder if my spies watched this movie, because they keep sending me false reports. I get this message saying that the Almoads will attack France in two years. I revise my plans so I can help my French allies. The Almoads do nothing. I return to my old plans and move my units back to where they were. Rinse, repeat. I've given up listening to the egregious liars. Maybe I should assume that reports of immanent invasion mean that there will be peace?

Does anyone else have problems with silly spies? Does anyone know how to tell if a report is for real or not?

[Martok]

The phenomenon you mention is not an isolated one--quite a few players have experienced it as well.

While no one knows for sure why it happens, it's been speculated that the spy *does* have genuine information indicating a certain faction is about to invade another....but that then something happens to cause the AI controlling that faction to change its mind and call off the attack.

My hunch as to what happens is this (it's a little wordy, hence the spoiler tags):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Let's say that Faction A is getting ready to attack Faction B next year, and your spy picks up on this. He therefore dispatches a message to your king saying as much. I think what most likely is happening, however, is that after you've ended ended the turn (and a new year has begun) is that Faction A notices that Faction C has suddenly built up its military forces along their mutual border. As a result, A decides that, instead of attacking B, that it needs to keep its army at home to protect itself from a possible incursion by C.

A year or two after this (assuming Faction C still hasn't attacked), A once again harbors ambitions of gaining more territory. So once again, it mobilizes to invade B. Again, your spy reports this. On the next turn, however, C (or perhaps Faction D) once more threatens A with invasion itself, and so again A keeps its army at home.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

I have no proof that this is what actually happens, of course, so you should accept my explanation with as many grains of salt as you're comfortable with. Still, I have a feeling that my explanation must be at least something like what happens. I say this because on occasion, those spy reports actually turn out to be true....leading me to believe they're not just random.

Oh, and welcome to the Org, Brandy_Blue! Glad you could join us.

[caravel]

Like Martok has said it works in the way e.g. Egyptians in Antioch have a huge stack there. Your (Byzantine) spy informs you that the Turks in Syria are the likely target, but nothing happens. Basically the spy checks the size of a stack, and the most likely target province for a possible invasion, i.e. that which is the most vulnerable (explaining why it's rarely the players provinces that come up, as the players are usually better protected, whith chokepoints established etc). It's not that useful.

[Vladimir]

I received a warning that the Papacy was going to invade in two years, one year after they launched a massive invasion of Venice.

[Don Esteban]

Maybe the courier sending the report got lost on the way to tell you......

[caravel]

It's a case of:

Two Almohad spies in Castile is peeping out of a thicket.

Spy: "wow, now that is an army, they're obviously going to invade Cordoba next year!!"

Other Spy: "the Khalifah needs to know about this... oh hold on...

Castilian General: "Well, I think we'd better get moving if we're to invade NAVARRE TOMORROW AFTERNOON" *wink wink nudge nudge"

Castilian Captain: "Oh yes, we'd better get the men mounted up and move out, we're taking the NOTHERN ROAD into NAVARRE after all" *wink nudge"

Spy: "Hmmmm they're attacking Navarre, or should I say NAV..."

Other Spy: "Shhhhhhhhh..."

Spy: "oops"

Other Spy: "We'd better go and inform the Khalifah that the Dons are heading for Navarre then?"

Spy: "Lets go..."

Much Later, two spies enter the court of the Almohad Khalifah

Spy: "My Lord, the Castilians are planning an invasion, they are going to attack the Navarrese tonight!!"

The two Spies are looking very smug, until an emissary bursts into the court out of breath...

Emissary: "The cas... cas... THE CASTILIANS ARE COMING!!!!"

Khalifah turns to look at the two spies, whom are hoping that the ground will swallow them up...

Khalifah: "What a pair of muppets..."

[Adrian II]

Does anyone else have problems with silly spies?

Man, I have an Assassin who is so fond of ice cream he refuses to operate outside of Italy.

It's hard to find good help these days.

[Martok]

Man, I have an Assassin who is so fond of ice cream he refuses to operate outside of Italy.

It's hard to find good help these days.

Ah, that's so true.

[Adrian II]

Ah, that's so true.

Oh, the things we veterans have to put up with. In my fifth Polish campaign I have conquered Khazar which has an Inn. Mind you, the year is 1243 and Gunpowder has not been invented. I click on my Mercenaries in Khazar and lo and behold, there is a unit of Handgunners.

It's unnatural, I tell you. Must be some kind of black art.

Vade retro, Satane!

[macsen rufus]

I always see handgunners in the mercenary pool before it's been "invented", same way as there are a few mongol types there before the Horde arrives. I put it down to a few adventurous individuals running westward with inventions that haven't been made public in Europe yet, trying to grab a better paycheck with their stolen technology

[Lord Cazaric]

I simply don't use spies.

My problem with them is that they always get assassinated within a year or two of training. Surely if they can manage to gather information about a massing army in Wessex, they should be able to find out about the man in the hooded cloak who intends on plunging a knife into their heart!

Imbeciles...

[Caerfanan]

I always see handgunners in the mercenary pool before it's been "invented", same way as there are a few mongol types there before the Horde arrives. I put it down to a few adventurous individuals running westward with inventions that haven't been made public in Europe yet, trying to grab a better paycheck with their stolen technology

Exactly! Thus creating a technological leek leading to the new inventions!

[Caerfanan]

Man, I have an Assassin who is so fond of ice cream he refuses to operate outside of Italy.

It's hard to find good help these days.

Aw, man!!!
I kinda understand him, though, Italy is a very nice country!

[Lord Cazaric]

Aw, man!!!
I kinda understand him, though, Italy is a very nice country!

And ice cream in damn good!

[bamff]

Just for the sake of idle curiousity, is there a province with a valour bonus for spies? I know Syrian trained spies get a valour bonus, for example - but what about spies?

[caravel]

Just for the sake of idle curiousity, is there a province with a valour bonus for spies? I know Syrian trained spies get a valour bonus, for example - but what about spies?

In Vanilla MTW/VI there is no valour bonus province for spies. There may be in some of the mods. I'm not sure about that.

[The Unknown Guy]

I think there was a movie called Our Man in Havanna. It was about a spy who made phoney reports to impress his bosses. For example, he photographed the inside of a vacuum cleaner and claimed it was a photo of an enemy secret weapon.

Well, I wonder if my spies watched this movie, because they keep sending me false reports. I get this message saying that the Almoads will attack France in two years. I revise my plans so I can help my French allies. The Almoads do nothing. I return to my old plans and move my units back to where they were. Rinse, repeat. I've given up listening to the egregious liars. Maybe I should assume that reports of immanent invasion mean that there will be peace?

Does anyone else have problems with silly spies? Does anyone know how to tell if a report is for real or not?

By the way, "Our Man in Havana" is a book by Graham Greene. Later Frederick Foryish made an adaptation to the Panama crisis: "The Panama Tailor" or somesuch, and from THAT one, they made a movie.

I recommend reading "Our Man in Havana". It was a very good book.

[EatYerGreens]

By the way, "Our Man in Havana" is a book by Graham Greene. Later Frederick Foryish made an adaptation to the Panama crisis: "The Panama Tailor" or somesuch, and from THAT one, they made a movie.

They've *both* been made into films.

I'd need to look it up to get the facts fully right but, based on rusty recollections, "...Havana" was in black-and-white, may have had Alec Guiness in it and might even have been an Ealing comedy (which would confine it to the 40s/50s).

[Ciaran]

By the way, "Our Man in Havana" is a book by Graham Greene. Later Frederick Foryish made an adaptation to the Panama crisis: "The Panama Tailor" or somesuch, and from THAT one, they made a movie.

I recommend reading "Our Man in Havana". It was a very good book.

Off Topic, but "the Panama Tailor" is by LeCarre, not Frederick Forsyth. I´ve read it, as well as all of Forsyths books - which are highly recommendable if you´re looking for political thrillers.

But on the topic, I´ve found that emissaries make for just as good an intelligence source as spies do, plus you don´t lose them to border forts or counterspies. Oh, the odd one might get assassinated every now and then, but there´s always plenty more where he came from. They´re cheaper and easier to reach in the tech tree, too.

[Martok]

But on the topic, I´ve found that emissaries make for just as good an intelligence source as spies do, plus you don´t lose them to border forts or counterspies. Oh, the odd one might get assassinated every now and then, but there´s always plenty more where he came from. They´re cheaper and easier to reach in the tech tree, too.

While that's true, they're unfortunately also easy to kill. I switch to religious agents (bishops, alims, & priests) as my main "spies-in-residence" once I'm able to train them in large quantities. I find them to be generally superior to emissaries for two reasons: Aside from converting the population of the province they're in, they're also generally more resistant to assassination attempts.