Siege Towers, Boiling Oil and Sap points...

[sivlar]

A few things I miss from RTW and was wondering if anyone has had any luck perhaps getting these back in with mods...

- Siege towers firing arrows at the defenders on the walls, larger siege towers would fire scorpion rounds and knock the defenders off.

- Sapping the walls with light infantry troops.

- Boiling oil from the gates.

Looking through the descr_engines.txt file I found this stuff listed on the Siege towers...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

type siege_tower
culture all
class tower
variant small
pathfinding_data siege_engines/siege_tower_small.modelTraversableNetwork
surface_occupants 20

engine_model_group normal
engine_skeleton siege_tower
engine_bone_map siege_engines/BoneMaps/tower2.xml
engine_collision siege_engines/collision_models/siege_tower_small_collision.CAS
engine_mesh siege_engines/siege_tower_small.mesh, 100
engine_mesh siege_engines/siege_tower_small.mesh, 200
engine_mesh siege_engines/siege_tower_small.mesh, 400
engine_mesh siege_engines/siege_tower_small.mesh, max

engine_model_group dying
engine_skeleton siege_tower_dying
engine_bone_map siege_engines/BoneMaps/smalltower_die.xml
engine_collision siege_engines/collision_models/siege_tower_small_collision.CAS
engine_mesh siege_engines/destroyed/small_tower_destruct_def.mesh, max

engine_model_group dead
engine_collision siege_engines/collision_models/siege_tower_small_collision.CAS
engine_mesh siege_engines/destroyed/small_tower_destroyed.mesh, max

engine_shadow none

engine_radius 5.5 ;3.5
engine_visual_radius 20
engine_length 7.0
engine_width 7.2
engine_height 19
engine_mass 40
engine_dock_dist 7.2
engine_mob_dist 8.0
engine_flammable true
engine_ignition 0.30
fire_effect engine_fire_large_set

obstacle_shape rectangle
obstacle_x_radius 3.6
obstacle_y_radius 3.5

engine_formation 10, 10

engine_spo physical_obstacle

engine_push_point dummy -3.5 -4.5
engine_push_point dummy -1.75 -4.5
engine_push_point dummy 0.0 -4.5
engine_push_point dummy 1.75 -4.5
engine_push_point dummy 3.5 -4.5
engine_push_point dummy -3.5 -5.5
engine_push_point dummy -1.75 -5.5
engine_push_point dummy 0.0 -5.5
engine_push_point dummy 1.75 -5.5
engine_push_point dummy 3.5 -5.5

engine_health 130

attack_stat 8, 2, arrow, 100, 100, missile, missile_mechanical, piercing
attack_stat_attr ap

arrow_generator 2 21.8 3.3
aim_dir 0.0 0.0 1.0
aim_arc 1.0
fire_interval 1.5

arrow_generator 1 21.8 3.3
aim_dir 0.0 0.0 1.0
aim_arc 1.0
fire_interval 1.5

arrow_generator 0 21.8 3.3
aim_dir 0.0 0.0 1.0
aim_arc 1.0
fire_interval 1.5

arrow_generator -1 21.8 3.3
aim_dir 0.0 0.0 1.0
aim_arc 1.0
fire_interval 1.5

arrow_generator -2 21.8 3.3
aim_dir 0.0 0.0 1.0
aim_arc 1.0
fire_interval 1.5

missile_pos 0.0 22 0.0

The larger siege towers have the word arrow replaced with scorpion. I tried adding a ROF and skeleton compensation factor like the EDU has but to no avail. I noticed the RTW descr_engine file has some *.CAS files linked at the bottom of this entry for missile effects. I even tried pasted those from RTW to MTW2 and duplicating the entried but all that does is cause a CTD when the seige battle loads up. I miss this feature, the siege towers even still have the slits at thier tops for the attackers to fire from. Just nothing I change can seem to make them work.

Sap points look like they are suppose to be there too. In the same file this is listed.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

;type sap_point
;culture all
;class sap_point
;pathfinding_data none
;
;engine_model_group normal, dying
;engine_skeleton sap_point
;engine_collision siege_engines/collision_models/mining_tunnel_lowest.CAS
;
;engine_model_group dead
;engine_collision siege_engines/collision_models/mining_tunnel_dead_lowest.CAS, max
;
;engine_shadow none
;
;engine_radius 5
;engine_visual_radius 5
;engine_length 10
;engine_width 6
;engine_height 3.0
;engine_mass 25
;engine_dock_dist 80
;engine_mob_dist 15
;engine_flammable true
;engine_ignition 1.0
;fire_effect engine_fire_medium_set
;
;engine_spo physical_obstacle physical_obstacle
;
;engine_push_point dummy -1 -9
;engine_push_point dummy -1 -4
;engine_push_point dummy 1 -9
;engine_push_point dummy 1 -4
;engine_push_point dummy 0 -2
;
;engine_health 20
;
;attack_stat 10, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_simple, blunt
;attack_stat_attr no

It's all commented out. From what I can tell the CAS files exsist though. So I tried removing the comments, adding "can_sap" to various peasant units in the EDU, and added "can_sap yes" to all factions listed in the descr_sm_factions.txt file. Sadly all of this did nothing. Has anyone had better luck than I or any other ideas what may need to be added?

Also there are several references to boiling oil in a few files but I have no idea where to start in getting this stuff to come out of the gates.

The last thing I miss from RTW that I wish we could change was when units were fighting on walls, some units would end up falling or if the wall got too overcrowded units would start spilling off.

I am guessing it could all be hardcoded though and we have no hope to change any of it. Anyone have any thoughts on this.


On a side note I did find a funny entry in the engine file.....made me lol.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

type great_cross
culture all
class holy_cart
pathfinding_data none
engine_flammable false ;;; Bob. This'll probably come back as a bug. Please don't fix it as we're not aiming for an endorsement from the KKK

[Kruniac]

A few things I miss from RTW and was wondering if anyone has had any luck perhaps getting these back in with mods...

- Siege towers firing arrows at the defenders on the walls, larger siege towers would fire scorpion rounds and knock the defenders off.

- Sapping the walls with light infantry troops.

- Boiling oil from the gates.

Looking through the descr_engines.txt file I found this stuff listed on the Siege towers...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

type siege_tower
culture all
class tower
variant small
pathfinding_data siege_engines/siege_tower_small.modelTraversableNetwork
surface_occupants 20

engine_model_group normal
engine_skeleton siege_tower
engine_bone_map siege_engines/BoneMaps/tower2.xml
engine_collision siege_engines/collision_models/siege_tower_small_collision.CAS
engine_mesh siege_engines/siege_tower_small.mesh, 100
engine_mesh siege_engines/siege_tower_small.mesh, 200
engine_mesh siege_engines/siege_tower_small.mesh, 400
engine_mesh siege_engines/siege_tower_small.mesh, max

engine_model_group dying
engine_skeleton siege_tower_dying
engine_bone_map siege_engines/BoneMaps/smalltower_die.xml
engine_collision siege_engines/collision_models/siege_tower_small_collision.CAS
engine_mesh siege_engines/destroyed/small_tower_destruct_def.mesh, max

engine_model_group dead
engine_collision siege_engines/collision_models/siege_tower_small_collision.CAS
engine_mesh siege_engines/destroyed/small_tower_destroyed.mesh, max

engine_shadow none

engine_radius 5.5 ;3.5
engine_visual_radius 20
engine_length 7.0
engine_width 7.2
engine_height 19
engine_mass 40
engine_dock_dist 7.2
engine_mob_dist 8.0
engine_flammable true
engine_ignition 0.30
fire_effect engine_fire_large_set

obstacle_shape rectangle
obstacle_x_radius 3.6
obstacle_y_radius 3.5

engine_formation 10, 10

engine_spo physical_obstacle

engine_push_point dummy -3.5 -4.5
engine_push_point dummy -1.75 -4.5
engine_push_point dummy 0.0 -4.5
engine_push_point dummy 1.75 -4.5
engine_push_point dummy 3.5 -4.5
engine_push_point dummy -3.5 -5.5
engine_push_point dummy -1.75 -5.5
engine_push_point dummy 0.0 -5.5
engine_push_point dummy 1.75 -5.5
engine_push_point dummy 3.5 -5.5

engine_health 130

attack_stat 8, 2, arrow, 100, 100, missile, missile_mechanical, piercing
attack_stat_attr ap

arrow_generator 2 21.8 3.3
aim_dir 0.0 0.0 1.0
aim_arc 1.0
fire_interval 1.5

arrow_generator 1 21.8 3.3
aim_dir 0.0 0.0 1.0
aim_arc 1.0
fire_interval 1.5

arrow_generator 0 21.8 3.3
aim_dir 0.0 0.0 1.0
aim_arc 1.0
fire_interval 1.5

arrow_generator -1 21.8 3.3
aim_dir 0.0 0.0 1.0
aim_arc 1.0
fire_interval 1.5

arrow_generator -2 21.8 3.3
aim_dir 0.0 0.0 1.0
aim_arc 1.0
fire_interval 1.5

missile_pos 0.0 22 0.0

The larger siege towers have the word arrow replaced with scorpion. I tried adding a ROF and skeleton compensation factor like the EDU has but to no avail. I noticed the RTW descr_engine file has some *.CAS files linked at the bottom of this entry for missile effects. I even tried pasted those from RTW to MTW2 and duplicating the entried but all that does is cause a CTD when the seige battle loads up. I miss this feature, the siege towers even still have the slits at thier tops for the attackers to fire from. Just nothing I change can seem to make them work.

Sap points look like they are suppose to be there too. In the same file this is listed.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

;type sap_point
;culture all
;class sap_point
;pathfinding_data none
;
;engine_model_group normal, dying
;engine_skeleton sap_point
;engine_collision siege_engines/collision_models/mining_tunnel_lowest.CAS
;
;engine_model_group dead
;engine_collision siege_engines/collision_models/mining_tunnel_dead_lowest.CAS, max
;
;engine_shadow none
;
;engine_radius 5
;engine_visual_radius 5
;engine_length 10
;engine_width 6
;engine_height 3.0
;engine_mass 25
;engine_dock_dist 80
;engine_mob_dist 15
;engine_flammable true
;engine_ignition 1.0
;fire_effect engine_fire_medium_set
;
;engine_spo physical_obstacle physical_obstacle
;
;engine_push_point dummy -1 -9
;engine_push_point dummy -1 -4
;engine_push_point dummy 1 -9
;engine_push_point dummy 1 -4
;engine_push_point dummy 0 -2
;
;engine_health 20
;
;attack_stat 10, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_simple, blunt
;attack_stat_attr no

It's all commented out. From what I can tell the CAS files exsist though. So I tried removing the comments, adding "can_sap" to various peasant units in the EDU, and added "can_sap yes" to all factions listed in the descr_sm_factions.txt file. Sadly all of this did nothing. Has anyone had better luck than I or any other ideas what may need to be added?

Also there are several references to boiling oil in a few files but I have no idea where to start in getting this stuff to come out of the gates.

The last thing I miss from RTW that I wish we could change was when units were fighting on walls, some units would end up falling or if the wall got too overcrowded units would start spilling off.

I am guessing it could all be hardcoded though and we have no hope to change any of it. Anyone have any thoughts on this.


On a side note I did find a funny entry in the engine file.....made me lol.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

type great_cross
culture all
class holy_cart
pathfinding_data none
engine_flammable false ;;; Bob. This'll probably come back as a bug. Please don't fix it as we're not aiming for an endorsement from the KKK

Nice find. Im sure someone can mod boiling oil into the game at the very least.

Sap points would be much more difficult, but with your find, its possible.

As for the cross, they should have left the flaming effect in. This is what happens when people think with stereotypical mindsets instead of vision.

[sivlar]

Well, I have tried about everything under the sun to get these things back in but have had zero luck doing it. Perhaps a more experienced modder will have better luck then I. Then again, it could be hardcoded and we won't be able to change anything.

Found another interesting sapping item that the devs leftover.

In this directory... SEGA\Medieval II Total War\data\menu\textures\

One of the texture files there has all the toolbar icons for sieging listed. The ladder, siege tower, rams....and a shovel. One can only assume the shovel was for sapping. How to tie that into the whole other mix and get it to apper and link to the appropriate siege model is a different story though.