Multiplayer M2TW forums

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Since when did clans stop posting their tournament replays just after the fact? In the past they would post those the next day for all to see. If you are REALLY good, someone seeing a replay of you will not make any difference amongst good players. However, these matches DO make a BIG difference among new players who can learn much about what makes a successful team.

Competition ruins many a good community, especially amongst the clan communities. Non-clan players find themselves unable to find games to join, due to clans being afraid of someone spying on them, and clan members find they are limited to playing with only those they know and trust. Thus, is the beginning of the end once more for the MP community.

If a clan is REALLY good, they will be recognized whether they win tournaments or not. All those clans you mentioned Warman are well respected and acknowledged for their good team play. Is it really that important to keep replays from the rest of the community, due to some paranoia about the opposing teams learning something so fantastic that it will make a difference in the next game? The ability to adapt is one of the things that make a good team great, not some sort of tactic or unit selection which can be easily copied/countered. So passing on replays as they happen, would not make any difference to those teams competing in that tournament.

However, the best way to handle this is to make sure that you ask before posting such screens and replays. The mod of that section of the forum should also remove such replays if anyone in the game or clan asks them to. Would that make it more palatable for those fearing to have certain replays posted?

Competition doesn't Ruin this Game El. If you have none, Then how can you have alot of fun on the game then? Just like in Real Life. If you have a Business,say a Computer Business, and you are beating every other Comp Busniess out there. It won't be fun with out any Competition, because you ar forcing people to jsut buy your products, or they go without computers.

Just a Example.


Competition Makes TW fun. You can have fun without it, but it adds into the fun.


Stig, My post was never directed at being angry at a lost. I know it is a game, and I don't need anyone to tell me otherwise Stig. I was just stating the point in a gaming standpoint, not a real life. Winning the World CUp isn't important to me since I don'tl ike soccer anyhow

[ElmarkOFear]

I guess I should have phrased it Over-competitiveness.

Every game you play is a competition. But there are two kinds of competition: Friendly and serious. It is the serious type of competition that has ruined many an MP community. Serious competition has been shown to bring out the worst in some people and groups. :) I didn't make myself clear on that, sorry.

[RTKBarrett]

Competition doesn't Ruin this Game El. If you have none, Then how can you have alot of fun on the game then? Just like in Real Life. If you have a Business,say a Computer Business, and you are beating every other Comp Busniess out there. It won't be fun with out any Competition, because you ar forcing people to jsut buy your products, or they go without computers.

Just a Example.


Competition Makes TW fun. You can have fun without it, but it adds into the fun.


Stig, My post was never directed at being angry at a lost. I know it is a game, and I don't need anyone to tell me otherwise Stig. I was just stating the point in a gaming standpoint, not a real life. Winning the World CUp isn't important to me since I don'tl ike soccer anyhow

TBH i wouldnt mind owning a company that had a monopoly in something and basically made other attempts of business look stupid

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

TBH i wouldnt mind owning a company that had a monopoly in something and basically made other attempts of business look stupid

Nethier would Anyone else here



Yes El, I think you was trying to get to that point.


Nothing wrong with a CWC or CCS or a Similar Tournment Style of Competition. It just when it becomes serious to the point of, Trading sick pics against each other for insults,hacking, constaly fourm bicking and hundreds of games against each other, that's when it becomes touble-some. Some People love that type of competition. Hell, I used to love it--------- Untill I realzie it wasn't going to get me anywhere, and by, it was obisoulty to late for me to fix most and/or all of the damage.

[7Bear7Bottom]

I agree with Lavos here. Besides if I'm not mistaken there are few skilled players playing with fake tags. Not willing to admit defeat against a newbie with a ''true tag''? heh

Yes there are a "Silent" few who use fake tags to be "Silent" about themselves. Some use this "Silent" tag method because they are so obnoxious in their regular tag they have been "Silenced" by the majority of people and put on ignore/banned.

Which coins a phrase, "Silence" is golden?

Some one recently sudgested in the Monkey Business tournament to post the replays but you can guess the reaction. So we will have to pool our resourses and maybe try to get the admins from the tournaments to put it in their rules?
Wishful thinking?

[Lavos]

Not hard imo, just put a rule that winner must post replay or they don't get a win. :D

[YellowMelon]

Lol bottom, who can decipher your code!

I wouldnt say that that case is about overcompetetiveness, just douchebags. I am overly competetive, hate to lose and such, but I don't act like them...except to antigonus, but he deserves it. And Monsta...he too deserves it.

[ElmarkOFear]

Or they could post a Game Of The Week, highlighting a really nice tactical play or turning point in a match. Then explain to everyone where in the replay this event happened and allow everyone to be awed by their brilliance. :)

[Denali]

I now see bottom why a certain member of your clan registered on our forums .... hmm to watch the replays?
hmmm...

[TosaInu]

Little 'puns' make big snipes, the result is not constructive.

[Orda Khan]

I now see bottom why a certain member of your clan registered on our forums .... hmm to watch the replays?
hmmm...

Many a true word spoken in jest eh? A lot worse has happened.

This is asking for trouble.

The bitching and personal insults will follow, they already have so why provide more space for it?
There is no MP community

......Orda

[ElmarkOFear]

Orda: Even though you and a few others do not feel M2TW MP is worthy of play, (and apparently even worthy of discussion), there are quite a few who ARE enjoying the game, warts and all. Now the .org site needs to decide if it wants to continue on as a mostly STW/MTW forum (with a small group of RTW/M2TW participants thrown in), or if it wants to work on including the new MP community among its ranks.

If the .org wants to grow its MP community, I recommend establishing a new MP M2TW section. If it wants to just revel in the past MP community, and complain about the current state of MP affairs, I recommend not creating an M2TW MP section.

If a majority of you are satisfied with the status quo, then do not change anything. Continue on, as is, if it makes you happy.

If a majority of you decide to try to bring some more members to the .org and work on recreating a portion of the MP community STW/MTW enjoyed so much, then make the changes Rob recommended.

Its your decision. Either way, the TW series is going to move forward, with or without some of you, and so will its new fan base. You can insulate yourself from the new community or you can try to work within it to make it better.

I realized awhile back, that the old TW series/MP community is gone. It isn't coming back. This has been proven during the last two game releases. CA isn't going to change its mind on this. Once I left the resentment behind, I found I was able to enjoy M2TW MP.

I am the first to admit M2TW has problems, some of which will never be resolved, however the old STW/MTW community had some of these very same problems, but it dealt with them, and enjoyed the MP game for many years.

I am sure it is cathartic to point out all of M2TWs flaws and to prove to the new enthusiastic members how inferior the current game is when compared to the old, but what is it accomplishing? It is chasing off the very people who would keep this forum exciting.

At first, I thought some older patrons were pointing out flaws in the current game as part of an effort to persuade new patrons as to what makes a game good. However, from what I have heard recently, it appears this isn't the case. It has turned into an ugly "us vs. them" argument where one side says it is right in its assessment of the game, and the other side says it is right. To tell you the truth; I no longer give a damn about who is wrong or who is right. I would be satisfied with having a place where M2TW MP players can hold discussions without the older, and sometimes more jaded, patrons jumping in to explain how inferior M2TW is, how the current MP community has no clue as to why M2TW is inferior, how the new game has been dumbed-down, and then passing judgement on anyone who happens to enjoy playing the current game.

Case in point: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...t=73337&page=8

If that cannot happen here, with a new M2TW MP section, I am sure it will happen somewhere. That's not a threat, but a given. Someone will decide to give it a shot, though it would have a higher probability of success here, where the .org would also reap the benefits of an influx of new patrons.

As I said before. It's up to you: decide.

[Stig]

You can always try. A couple of people don't like the game, but there are also people that DO like the game, why not give them something too.
If you don't try you never see if it works ... but then if we don't try we can never prove certain people wrong ... scared?

I would be satisfied with having a place where M2TW MP players can hold discussions without the older, and sometimes more jaded, patrons jumping in to explain how inferior M2TW is, how the current MP community has no clue as to why M2TW is inferior, how the new game has been dumbed-down, and then passing judgement on anyone who happens to enjoy playing the current game.

my agrees

[7Bear7Bottom]

Originally Posted by Denali
I now see bottom why a certain member of your clan registered on our forums .... hmm to watch the replays?
hmmm...

They registered there long ago because of Furious being their friend and former clan m8. (makes coffee for Denali to wake up)

This is asking for trouble.

The bitching and personal insults will follow, they already have so why provide more space for it?

No, it's ok, the ironic thing is, their best player there was trained and bred by the Bear Clan. If Denali would like to become as good as Silent Furious is, we would be more than happy to train him aswell. And no bones about it, Silent Furious is an awesome player. I'm so Proud.

I have been saving some replays, so I will post them when this gets off the ground.

[Denali]

lmao im not even gonna reply to that bulls**t bottom... trained.. my ass


Anyway im not going to continue the flaming.. As I said before only a small part is regulary active here so the point would be to make something special..

To be honest i didnt read all the long posts above but here is my idea:

Ive seen that in other forums (other games).. A member of the publisher team or much better some1 from the developer (CA) dedicates himself to the community, meaning he is here to answer the questions the community has. Since the .Org is the only real contact point to get in touch with CA so that would be the chance to make this place popular again (for the mp community i mean) ...

Just an idea

[RTKBarrett]

Orda try playing the game in multiplayer before u make an opinion plz
I am enjoying the experience and have enjoyed it all the more because of the number of ppl i have talked to and discussed things with over last few years.
Its not all bad... just ppl refuse to give things a chance and shun it at the first opportunity/window.

[Orda Khan]

Orda: Even though you and a few others do not feel M2TW MP is worthy of play, (and apparently even worthy of discussion), there are quite a few who ARE enjoying the game, warts and all. Now the .org site needs to decide if it wants to continue on as a mostly STW/MTW forum (with a small group of RTW/M2TW participants thrown in), or if it wants to work on including the new MP community among its ranks.

If the .org wants to grow its MP community, I recommend establishing a new MP M2TW section. If it wants to just revel in the past MP community, and complain about the current state of MP affairs, I recommend not creating an M2TW MP section.

If a majority of you are satisfied with the status quo, then do not change anything. Continue on, as is, if it makes you happy.

If a majority of you decide to try to bring some more members to the .org and work on recreating a portion of the MP community STW/MTW enjoyed so much, then make the changes Rob recommended.

Its your decision. Either way, the TW series is going to move forward, with or without some of you, and so will its new fan base. You can insulate yourself from the new community or you can try to work within it to make it better.

I realized awhile back, that the old TW series/MP community is gone. It isn't coming back. This has been proven during the last two game releases. CA isn't going to change its mind on this. Once I left the resentment behind, I found I was able to enjoy M2TW MP.

I am the first to admit M2TW has problems, some of which will never be resolved, however the old STW/MTW community had some of these very same problems, but it dealt with them, and enjoyed the MP game for many years.

I am sure it is cathartic to point out all of M2TWs flaws and to prove to the new enthusiastic members how inferior the current game is when compared to the old, but what is it accomplishing? It is chasing off the very people who would keep this forum exciting.

At first, I thought some older patrons were pointing out flaws in the current game as part of an effort to persuade new patrons as to what makes a game good. However, from what I have heard recently, it appears this isn't the case. It has turned into an ugly "us vs. them" argument where one side says it is right in its assessment of the game, and the other side says it is right. To tell you the truth; I no longer give a damn about who is wrong or who is right. I would be satisfied with having a place where M2TW MP players can hold discussions without the older, and sometimes more jaded, patrons jumping in to explain how inferior M2TW is, how the current MP community has no clue as to why M2TW is inferior, how the new game has been dumbed-down, and then passing judgement on anyone who happens to enjoy playing the current game.

Case in point: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...t=73337&page=8

If that cannot happen here, with a new M2TW MP section, I am sure it will happen somewhere. That's not a threat, but a given. Someone will decide to give it a shot, though it would have a higher probability of success here, where the .org would also reap the benefits of an influx of new patrons.

As I said before. It's up to you: decide.

Thanks for that Elmo,
I have my opinions too and I am entitled to post them.
I decided that balanced MP had gone a long time ago. Unlike many I was not enfatuated with MTW and once it was patched it was worse. My view on the game is irrelevant, I am fully aware of that too. There are MP forums for every TW release already so I can only assume that these new sub forums are M2TW related or are we getting MP sub forums for each title?
Whatever the case I stand by my statement that it is asking for trouble.

I already see an element of this with certain members. What happens when some enthusiastic youngster posts some ideas on tactics only for someone to post a replay showing that he 'pwned' these tactics? Then the huge egos and personalities who believe they truly are some glorious General begin. I've seen all that before and I'm not interested.
In that link you will see my reply and it is precisely for these reasons.

BTW, I did not even mention the game, I was talking about MP sub forums of the nature suggested already and the MP community

......Orda

[Orda Khan]

Orda try playing the game in multiplayer before u make an opinion plz
I am enjoying the experience and have enjoyed it all the more because of the number of ppl i have talked to and discussed things with over last few years.
Its not all bad... just ppl refuse to give things a chance and shun it at the first opportunity/window.

Why do you assume that I haven't? Anyway, you seem to have missed the point

......Orda

[RTKBarrett]

Why do you assume that I haven't? Anyway, you seem to have missed the point

......Orda

Because ure constantly saying how rubbish it has all been since the start of mtw, alot of ure posts concerning multiplayer are very negative and i would be extremely surprised if u had played m2tw online
The point is there is a mp community, it like everything else has flaws... but what it does have are dedicated players who want to see it grow and succeed...

[TosaInu]

To each his own. You like cola I prefer milk. You are not hurting me when you drink cola, I don't hurt you when I drink milk.

[ShinobiKakashi]

I have once thoughed of creating a forum where clans can hang out.. where they can have their recruit topics. Where they can be informed of tourney. Where they can hang aroud. Where they can share stuff concerning MP. Where they can chat about factions, units from MP view of point. Where they can simply hang out with their best friends from others clans. Where they can where they can where they can.... etc etc :D :D. But i didnt have time to do it. :(

Anyways it hink it would help the comunity.. well thats my opinion. :P

[Jochi Khan]

I already see an element of this with certain members. What happens when some enthusiastic youngster posts some ideas on tactics only for someone to post a replay showing that he 'pwned' these tactics? Then the huge egos and personalities who believe they truly are some glorious General begin. I've seen all that before and I'm not interested.
In that link you will see my reply and it is precisely for these reasons.

This is where the Moderator/s of the forum would be duty bound to step in and ensure that it goes no further. That is what they are there for.

[ElmarkOFear]

Orda: I understand your worries about the new forums. Sorry I misunderstood your previous statements on the MP community. I realized we do not want a repeat of what happened here during the STW/MTW days and the reasons for the MP split to the .net. That was why I thought it would be a good idea to set it up on a trial basis and also designate someone known and respected by all in the MP community. Cheetah, Tomisama, Ichi?

I also realize that things will naturally be a bit more "exciting?" in the MP forums than in the regular discussion forums. It is the nature of the beast. But in the past, even during those turbulent times, the MP community remained tight and it was fun to log in to the .org each and every day. You never knew what to expect. The trick is to allow a certain amount of banter (such as the one between 7Bear7 and Denali), while quickly putting a lid on more serious arguments. Most of the .org staff has been around the block and know how to handle such things. I have great confidence in them.

If we consider it a trial, to see if it works as planned, we can set a date to evaluate its success. If it has gotten out of hand and is more trouble than it is worth, I will be the first to say; "Get rid of it." If it isn't being used much and is just taking up space; "Get rid of it."

I just believe we need to do "something" after all this time, to try to get everyone to interact again and to start enjoying coming here, without having to worry about getting in the middle of any arguments. There is room enough for everyone to have their own space and get to know each other so everyone will be familiar with each other's backgrounds and how they came to believe the things they do about this game. There is something to be learned by all, if we just try to listen and ask questions instead of always trying to make some point to support our discussions.

So: Does everyone think it necessary to put this to some sort of vote? Like the HOF awards? It is something that will effect everyone who participates here and you may want to consult them on their opinions. Or do we tell everyone it is to be a trial basis and then consult everyone at the end of the period to see if they want to keep or get rid of it?

[Monarch]

To each his own. You like cola I prefer milk. You are not hurting me when you drink cola, I don't hurt you when I drink milk.

Whilst I whole heartedly agree, a certain couple of Orgers are constantly trying to persuade us milk is bad and cola is better, refusing to agree to disagree. I think its ironic that even a thread about moving mp here at the org forward they manage to spark yet another of these older players vs newer players.

Anyway, if I may bring this thread back kicking and screaming on topic...

[Cheetah]

To each his own. You like cola I prefer milk. You are not hurting me when you drink cola, I don't hurt you when I drink milk.

Unfortunately that is not our case.

The case is that we have two members who has nothing to contribute to the community other then highly negative and insulting comments.

Each and every tactical thread degenerated into a fake "old vs new" debate because of these members. I am saying fake because it is never the "old community" (as if the old community would be such solid entity) vs the new, it is always these two members baiting a debate.

Even the most innocent thread like this degerated into a debate because of them.

One solution would be to ignore these members, unfortunately there are always new victims who can be baited.

Another solution is that if you could talk to them as both of them are your clan mates.

Perhaps you have an other solution which I am glad to hear.

The point is that as long as these members do not change their behavior each and every tactical thread will end up this way. This hurts the community (which does exist contrary to the claims made by these members), hurts those who would be willing to engage in a meaningful discussion, and in general creates a hostile, counterproductive environment.

Tosa please do something.

Thank you.
Lional of Cornwall, Realm Advisor of the Round Table Knights, aka. Cheetah

[YellowMelon]

A community does not exist here because certain people want it to stay that way, while at the same time revelling in the past. Well how could there be no M2TW community when immediately a torunament was set up by Monarch/Bedivere/Naiver and attracted 36 or so clans. Then there are the TWPL, CWC, CWB. The community exists and in great harmony, though you refuse to allow its presence to be felt here. And when people start asking for this, there is a cry to moderate the thread. There is a reason why there are only 15 or so MP people who post here atm, and it is because there is nothing for us here. The .ORG is a great place for the community to come together, but if you prefer in a nostalgic idea of the past and fear the present, then we will operate elsewhere.

And Orda, there are people who play and enjoy this game, so why do you even post in the M2TW section? Just to continue to spread your discontent. Your negative energy is not appreciated

[Stig]

To each his own. You like cola I prefer milk. You are not hurting me when you drink cola, I don't hurt you when I drink milk.

Unfortunately that is not our case.

Cheetah is right, in this case we have 3 groups, the cola drinkers and the milk drinkers, and they respect eachother and a couple of persons (about 3 max) who prefer their homebrew and they do anything to let us drink it, even tho we won't want it and everyone knows it tasts like cats piss

[Monarch]

, even tho we won't want it and everyone knows it tasts like cats piss

lol, I actually did lol at that one

[TosaInu]

Unfortunately that is not our case.

I know.

The case is that we have two members who has nothing to contribute to the community other then highly negative and insulting comments.

-Moving back and forth, analysing: the two have not posted in this thread.
-Nothing is too absolute.
-I see the point, and while there's room to air disappointments with the game, always been always will be, there are good and not so good ways to do it.

Each and every tactical thread degenerated into a fake "old vs new" debate because of these members. I am saying fake because it is never the "old community" (as if the old community would be such solid entity) vs the new, it is always these two members baiting a debate.

STW released -> Minesweeper was much better. MTW released -> STW was much better. RTW released -> MTW was much better. M2TW released -> RTW was much better. Every release saw a group of disgruntled members glorifying the past. Warranted or not, others try to enjoy the new game.

Even the most innocent thread like this degerated into a debate because of them.

That's too much credit. But yes, it's sad when such things happen and they do.

One solution would be to ignore these members, unfortunately there are always new victims who can be baited.

'Baiting' is not just by these two, but it's often called friendly banter.

Another solution is that if you could talk to them as both of them are your clan mates.

So, we have the same forumrules for about 6 years, a staff who constantly explains to play nice, all of you have some experience with negative interaction and the destruction resulting from it and all that is ignored? But Tosa talking to his 'clanmates' will fix everything? Ok, I see the point. I like to join RTK, FEAR, Ugly, Silent Assassins, 7Bear7, Kenchikuka, Grey Wolves and all other clans. You accept me? I'm happy and honored. Can we now play nice please?

Perhaps you have an other solution which I am glad to hear.

Yes, I do, several actually. But wouldn't it be nice if we all allowed each other some air and played fair?

The point is that as long as these members do not change their behavior each and every tactical thread will end up this way. This hurts the community (which does exist contrary to the claims made by these members), hurts those who would be willing to engage in a meaningful discussion, and in general creates a hostile, counterproductive environment.

True, but again: it's too much credit for two people.

Tosa please do something.

[-Silent-Pariya]

Right now, the tourney and clan messages (no not the 'bloodbad' ones, but that's not the only aspect of clans is it?) are 'swamped' in the other MP related topics here.

I think the BadBlood ones are here as well

Yes there are a "Silent" few who use fake tags to be "Silent" about themselves. Some use this "Silent" tag method because they are so obnoxious in their regular tag they have been "Silenced" by the majority of people and put on ignore/banned.

Which coins a phrase, "Silence" is golden?

Looks like you want a warzone to me bottum?

And yes, thats the only response your going to get out of me.