Give me a break!!!!

**Loki** · 01-22-2007, 03:15

So I was playing around with all the new units (new to the factions since MTW1). Just doing simple 1 on 1 on grassy plain battles, checking various strengths and weakness'.

So just for a goof I try some Aztec units. Turns out the "Jaguar Warriors" are the best infantry unit in the vanilla game. They even stomp the JHI.

Someone wake me up

**pevergreen** · 01-22-2007, 05:52

Aztecs have incredible morale.

Aztecs own in melee. To beat them you need gunpowder. That how it happened in real life.

(I have not gotten to the point of having the new world open up, so dont take that as a stratagey, ive heard it, thats all.)

**Booga** · 01-22-2007, 06:05

The Aztecs are fanatic. You need something to reach out and touch them with, while keeping them at arm's length. Gunpowder and pikes are useful, in that regard.

People don't always realize how touch Aztecs actually were. If taking over the New World had been a strictly military affair then Cortez wouldn't have stood a chance. Before Tenochtitlan was taken and destroyed the Spanish lost as many battles as they won. Aztec equipment was pretty good too, their armor was surprisingly resistant to blades and there was documentation of macanas - obsidian-lined clubs - decapitating a horse in one blow:

"Pedro de Moron, was a very good horseman, and as he charged with three other horsemen into the ranks of the enemy the Indians seized hold of his lance and he was not able to drag it away, and others gave him cuts with their broadswords, and wounded him badly, and then they slashed at the mare, and cut her head off at the neck so that it hung by the skin, and she fell dead."

From the memoirs of Bernal Diaz del Castillo, a soldier under Cortez. So yes, don't underestimate the Aztecs :P

**akodo** · 01-22-2007, 06:05

Saying that it was like that in real life is a bit much... I mean, they didn't even have steel! they would fight practicaly naked, with clubs of flint! That would mean that they could own in melee a bunch if lightly armored spaniards, but armored knights? no way... they could hack at them for a year, but no stone club or spear could punch through layers of plate, mail and padded armor...

**pevergreen** · 01-22-2007, 06:09

Obsidian club.

Harder than some steel.

They were uber.

Anything different is just WIFOM.

**Blademun** · 01-22-2007, 06:33

just a quick FYI, Properly chipped obsidian produces one of the sharpest edges known to man. However, it does not keep that edge for more then a couple blows against anything harder then flesh.

**Musashi** · 01-22-2007, 06:48

Without smallpox Cortez would have been massacred. The one pitched battle he actually fought he lost and badly.

**pike master** · 01-22-2007, 06:50

give it up guys they were cannon fodder ive used pikes on em and if you get them to work right they do a good job but i also used forlorn hope, two handers and some swiss guard i created to see how they worked. they all did all right but the fun i really had was that the whole army was bunched up in a little ball in a city street so im looking at it and my soldiers are just a short distance away and they aint attacking me so i wheeled a grand bombard up set it on solid shot and ripped loose on em several times at point blank.lol

i also had some created elephants and sent them in from another direction and man i really think that they started from scratch on these elephants as far as mechanics. in rome they had to tusk you up in the air to kill you but now all they have to do is step on you lol.

**Loki** · 01-23-2007, 04:34

Originally Posted by pevergreen

Obsidian club.

Harder than some steel.

They were uber.

Anything different is just WIFOM.

MAN! I want some of what you are smoking!

OK here's the deal. You get [unpronouncable name here] armor which is basically padded leather and a big wooden club with those oh so impresive obsidian chips. I get medievil chain and plate armor... Ah hell, I'll take just plain ole scale male and a big cross hilted broadswoard.

When do you want to go?

**JCoyote** · 01-23-2007, 04:41

Obsidian is glass. Yes, it is hard. However, I suggest you try punching through a halfway decent piece of sheet metal with a shard of glass then get back to us with the results.

Hardness doesn't matter if there isn't enough resilience to accomplish the task in an impact. Unless the guy in armor was going to sit there and let the aztec saw on him with the obidian, it wasn't doing much good on armor.

**Zenicetus** · 01-23-2007, 05:30

Originally Posted by Loki

MAN! I want some of what you are smoking!

OK here's the deal. You get [unpronouncable name here] armor which is basically padded leather and a big wooden club with those oh so impresive obsidian chips. I get medievil chain and plate armor... Ah hell, I'll take just plain ole scale male and a big cross hilted broadswoard.

When do you want to go?

Okay, and you're also a thousand miles from home and family, you're malnourished, sick with dysentery, and the mosquitoes won't stop bothering you when you try to sleep at night. I know the local terrain... you don't. My faction is a warrior culture at the core, not something where being a soldier is optional. And my religion isn't based on trying to save your soul, but to cut out your heart for a glorious sacrifice. Yeah, let's go. :)

C'mon people... at the risk of repeating something that gets said too often here; it's a game, not a simulation. The game can't represent the imbalance in numbers with a 20 unit limit, so the natives are buffed. In terms of playability, that beats being forced to run through consecutive battles (that you can't exit from) to represent an advantage in numbers. Also, this is an end-game scenario, where you're assumed to be flush with cash and pumping out your most elite units. It's not supposed to be a cakewalk.