Historical accuracy questions

**Watchman** · 01-25-2007, 23:10

Weights I've seen quoted for the bronze muscle cuirasses (both plates, mind you) are in the 30 pound range. Which sounds credible enough; AFAIK most decent-coverage mail shirts weigh about the same (although there can be very considerable variation due to "cut" alone), and good steel breastplates rather a bit less. (Early Modern "proof" cuirasses, with double-thick 4mm front plate, are about 25-30 pounds; normal-thickness ones about 75% of that.) 'Course, exact coverage, design, thickness and such can vary the figures quite a bit.

Not that it really matters. Medieval knights fighting dismounted could cheerfully be wearing full mail, a coat-of-plates over it for serious torso protection (and neither armour is exactly light by itself), plus helmet and sundry additional limb defences plus weapons, and normally didn't have too much trouble with the load. They didn't cover ground all that fast of course, but then if they needed to be mobile they'd stay on horseback to begin with.

**Xtiaan72** · 01-25-2007, 23:19

Bleeding ankle biting romans!!! :)

Gunther the Barbarian: "BAR BAR! Run for the hills.....It's those bleeding Roman midgets again.....with their steely little knives...How can we fight them when they run between our legs....BAR BAR!!!"

**Watchman** · 01-25-2007, 23:39

Talk about striking below the belt...

**Xtiaan72** · 01-25-2007, 23:57

"Pastafarians!" Classic.....

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 01-26-2007, 01:01

Humphreys, over what gound was this. Carrying that load at that speed is, well quite fast. It's more than I can do these days, but then I'm a lazy university slob.

I went running yesterday. I did a mile and wanted to sick-up.

Very un cool, that's what you get for jacking it in for eight weeks.

**Zaknafien** · 01-26-2007, 01:09

Humphreys, being in the military does not make one a better person but thank you for your support anyways

I wear a rack over my IBA with three 3-mag pouches on each side, plus some other pouches. ill post a picture of a sample

Mind you, this is not a combat load, this is just a "hey look at me standing around" picture. On a combat patrol, side plates, shoulder plates, and a crotch plate would be added, as well as helmet, assault pack, radio, leg drop pouch, etc. we use M-4s these days, but even an M-4 with flashlight, laser sight, ACOG, pistol grip, extra magazine, etc, can be pretty heavy.

And, as an aside, no I do not support policy in Iraq if thats what youre asking. Afghanistan is a different matter entirely, but Im skeptical about it as well. Popular insurgencies cannot be won with military force unless one is willing to use extreme tactics, like the Romans.

**DXL** · 01-26-2007, 02:15

Cant we just say that modern day soldier carry what they need and what they need depends on mission, ROE and what kind of unit youre in?
I dont like it when threads go to far off topic

edit:
however, I would love to speak with fellow militaries at a forum that is not exclusive for militarys, since all those forums tend to end up in a ton of threads where people bashing either the yanks or the frenchies or some other nation instead of just talking about the things I wanna talk about. (like the feeling when that red car in central Kabul dont follow the pattern of the rest of the cars and all the people in a four block radius is gone, or how awed you get when you visit a U.S camp for the first time.... I mean, you guys build cities when you go to war, yeez.

ya, sorry, now I got OT, and nostalgia hit me to... Guess I gonna go out and walk memory lane and have smoke now.

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 01-26-2007, 03:55

Holy hell Zak, that's all ammo? That's also one hell of a chest rig.

Just went looking across the net at what the British have been producing in the last few years. The trend still seems to be for carrying six to nine mags. Although Highlander have produced a vest with 6x3 mag pouches, thats 18 mags!

Interesting really, because the standard gear can carry 12 tops and usually only carries 6. Must be a sign of an army fighting in a combat zone.

All this talk of webbing is making me want to wander down to the recruiting office, or just buy new gear. I was tempted to join the TA at Uni but if I'm going to get shipped out I want to be doing the job full time.

Bah, sorry. I'll go on forever about the army.

Still can't get over the fact they let you shave your head though.

**Incongruous** · 01-26-2007, 05:08

Cant say much about Ancient arms and armor.
But while at Warwick castle once, I was allowed to lift a Bastard sword from around the mid 1430's I think. I can tell you, that was damned heavy (mind you I was only sicteen last time I was home). Then I tried to put on a Great helm, with just a small slit for the eyes, Christ my head nearky went through my shoulders. So I'm supposing that (even if their armour was lighter) Hoplites would of had to have been damned strong, and that their armour was pretty heavy.