Cavalry Speed: What's the difference?

[Doug-Thompson]

A question arose during discussion on an English combined-arms tactics thread. Are light cavalry like hobilars really any faster than knights?

According to unit stats, there are only four types of melee cav that are "fast":

Alan Light Cavalry (Mercenary)
Albanian Cavalry (Mercenary)
Border Horse (Scotland)
Stradiots (Venice)

But are other types as fast or faster than knights? Is there an advantage with light melee cav other than being cheaper?

[Bearclaw]

I have no personal experience with them, but I would assume so. Unarmored cavalry seems to have one speed, and armored cavalry another. I'm on turn 150 of a Turkish campaign in which I have solely used Turkomans (unarmored) and Sipahis (armored). The Sipahi description states that they have sacrificed some speed and mobility compared to their unarmored counterparts, but they are much better equipped to fight in melee for longer periods. I've certainly noticed this many times in my campaign-when the enemy army is sufficiently weakened by missile fire and it's time to mass-charge them, Turkomans close much faster than Sipahis. It's also noticeable when they're being chased by enemy cavalry.

So yes, they really are faster. I would say that unless you need to flee an enemy or really maximize your captures at the end of a battle, heavy cavalry is better. The speed difference is pretty slight, and so heavy cavalry will be able to chase routers almost as well. It's also important to mention that while harassment is a decent strategy, it's used more often because light cavalry must fill the place of insufficient numbers of heavy cavalry, and harassment is all light cavalry can really do.

[Leimadophus]

Yeah, my knights pursuing routing enemy knights never catch up. However, if I send holibars, they are able eventually to chase them down.

[Ar7]

Yeah, my knights pursuing routing enemy knights never catch up. However, if I send holibars, they are able eventually to chase them down.

That is my experience as well and it happened to a fresh general, meaning that he was the last unit of his army, didn't fight the entire battle and routed almost immediatly after charging, so he wasn't tired or exhausted.

Secondly, Hobilars easily outrun feudal knights when needing to retreat quickly, that's why they're so good at harassing. They can nicely draw away knights who will never catch them.

[KARTLOS]

does anyone know which stat(s) GOVern this if you wanted to edit it

[General Zhukov]

Well, one of the most valuable functions of light cavalry, reconnaissance, does not come into play. It would be nice if having light cavalry in an army extended sight range on the campaign map by three or four squares. As it stands, spies are the best scouts. On crusade, however, it would be better to have some light cav for recon since agent tag-alongs negate the bonus movement.

[econ21]

This thread needs a tester - a person with a stop watch and some time to kill. Some members (CBR?) measured running speeds in M2TW to compare them with MTW and RTW. But I am not sure how they managed to translate the distance covered in game into metres.

[Jagger]

does anyone know which stat(s) GOVern this if you wanted to edit it

Check unit stats for hardy, very hard, etc.

[dopp]

It's time for some preliminary findings:

WARNING! LONG, INDULGENT POST AHEAD!

Trial 1: Roman Equestrian Open Championships 1080

The Field:

Grassy Plains, clear skies. Vanilla M2TW, very hard difficulty, huge regiments.

The Contestants:

• 2nd House Cavalry (Cataphracts, Armored Horses)
• 23rd Macedonian Lancers (Byz Lancers, Heavy Horses)
• 18th Trebizond Dragoons (Byz Cavalry, Heavy Horses)
• 9th Imperial Heavy Cavalry Auxilia (Latinkons, Heavy Horses)
• 44th Imperial Light Cavalry Auxilia (Skys, Fast Ponies)
• 37th Imperial Elite Light Cavalry Auxilia (Vards, Fast Ponies)
• 52nd Imperial Light Cavalry Auxilia (Alans, Fast Ponies)

The Judge:

Emperor Alex the Watcher and his drinking buddies (I needed the general's slot filled by a non-competing unit).

The Entertainment:

Malcolm's Happy Highlanders (custom battles need at least one enemy unit and the Scots are the default second army)

Procedure:

• All competing units are ranked four deep (no cheating by deploying in 3 ranks, you smelly, cheesy Defense 9 Vards).
• As the 'entertainment' blocks the path down the centre, everyone except Alex is moved off to the left side.
• All competitors are grouped and lined up using the 'single line' formation. The grouping is then disbanded.
• The battle is started and then paused.
• Each competing unit is selected individually and ordered to move to the other end of the battlefield. The spacebar is held down during the operation to make sure that the end positions of the units are all in line and not overlapping each other (otherwise they would bump into each other at some point and slow down).
• Each competing unit is again selected individually and ordered to run by pressing 'R'.
• The game is unpaused and run on normal time. The contestants are monitored closely during the race to gauge their performance.
• After everyone is finished, the judge then appeases the gods by attacking the entertainment with a formed charge, completely annihilating it.
• Rinse and repeat, five times.

Results:

The fast ponies were the winners, by a significant margin (Vards, Skys and Alans). They finished four or five unit lengths before the heavy horses and eight unit lengths in front of the cataphracts on their armored horses. All units were remarkably consistent in their performance within their mount class. All the fast ponies arrived in a straight line at the finish every single time, followed by the heavy horse in a straight line too, with the unfortunate cataphracts bringing up the rear. I would suggest that the cataphracts are 20% slower than the fast ponies and 10% slower than the heavy horses.


Trial 2: Royal Derby 1080

I needed to test regular ponies and barded horses, basically.

The Contestants:

• 1st Life Guards (English Knights, Barded Horses)
• Royal Horse Guards (Feudal Knights, Barded Horses)
• 21st Lancers (Demi-Lancers, Heavy Horses)
• 13th 'Hussars' (Hobs, Ponies)

The Judge:

King Bob the Malevolent and his gambling creditors.

The Entertainment:

Malcolm's Happy Highlanders (again)

Results:

As expected, the Demi-Lancers and Hobs surged ahead on their unarmored horses and ponies, finishing first. The barded knights all trundled along at cataphract speed, finishing 5 unit lengths behind the faster horses. Consistent with the earlier test.


Trial 3: Corduba Festival 1080

Special thanks to the Moors for building the racetrack just before the Reconquista overran the city.

The Contestants:

• 1st Royal Latrine Losers (Gendarmes, Mailed Horses)
• 2nd Royal Lancers (Chivalric Knights, Barded Horses)
• 3rd Royal Lancers (Feudal Knights, Barded Horses)
• 12th Royal Lancers (Mailed Knights, Heavy Horses)
• "The Bullfighters" (Jinettes, Fast Ponies)

The Judge:

King Rodrigo the Completely Insane and his medical staff.

The Entertainment:

Malcolm's Happy Highlanders

Results:

The Jinettes showed their prowess and zipped ahead, hotly pursued by the Mailed Knights several unit lengths back on their heavy horses. The Feudals, Chivalrics and Gendarmes brought up the rear with their barded and mailed steeds.


Conclusion:

Unit speed appears to be determined by mount type, and the difference is noticeable. Fast ponies are quickest, followed by ponies and heavy horses (unarmored horses), followed by the armored and barded horses. So, if your knights happen to have unbarded horses, like Latinkons and Italian Men-at-Arms, chances are that they are a little faster than those with armored steeds.

Edit: I did some other tests with Cataphracts, Byz Lancers and Vards, testing various combinations of armor upgrades and experience levels. It made no difference that I could see.

[Petrus]

I've noticed that mailed knights were able to catch fleeing generals while feudal knights couldn't do it.
So i think the speed of the cavalry units is linked to the armour carried by the horses :
Mailed knights without armour are faster than bodyguards with armour even if they are both knights.

[Flavius Gonzo]

In my English Campaign I always kept at least 1-2 units of Holibars in every stack specifically to ride down any fleeing generals or knights -- I definitely noticed in several battles that armored cav (all types) couldn't catch up and chase down fleeing calvary very well at all compared to Holibars. Most of the time I'd send mailed knights after a fleeing general, the general would get away. But the light cav would almost always get him, even if they had to close a bit of distance first.

Similar thing in my Turks campaign, I always try to have a pair of Turkomans in the stack for the same purpose.