DX9(EX), DX10, XP, Vista, OpenGL, etc.

[Bijo]

There are some threads that sometimes refer to this business, but not really specifically how I want it.

So how are you going to deal with this stuff? I've read that DX9.0L (or EX) is going to be used by Windows XP as well as Vista, but I'm not sure 'bout it. I myself ain't gonna get Vista 'cause it looks like not only will it be a memory hog, it'll also not really provide any serious new system functionality (if I ain't mistaken). Th'only thing (personally seen at least) significant enough about Vista, to upgrade, is DX10.

So then comes the question: is DX10 really worth it? Is it really a major improvement compared to DX9? What are the real benefits?

I myself think DX9 is quite capable of pulling off things DX10 can do, but that's only based on various informations found 'round the net - stuff I recall.

Also another question: do you think they've made the most of DX9 up to now or can it be improved even more? DX9.0L comes to mind when I think of this, but ah...


And what about OpenGL? I hardly encounter games that need OpenGL, as DX dominates. Q: is OpenGL better/faster than DirectX (or could it be better if it's not at the moment)?

[DukeofSerbia]

There are some threads that sometimes refer to this business, but not really specifically how I want it.

So how are you going to deal with this stuff? I've read that DX9.0L (or EX) is going to be used by Windows XP as well as Vista, but I'm not sure 'bout it. I myself ain't gonna get Vista 'cause it looks like not only will it be a memory hog, it'll also not really provide any serious new system functionality (if I ain't mistaken). Th'only thing (personally seen at least) significant enough about Vista, to upgrade, is DX10.

So then comes the question: is DX10 really worth it? Is it really a major improvement compared to DX9? What are the real benefits?

That's how market and capitalism function. Sooner or later (I will later as much as possible) you will have to transit to DX10. They will force you. Hardware and software companies work together - we bring you hardware and you bring us games for that. If you want to play game how God demand, you need to buy new hardware. I hate that but what can we do about it!

I don't like Vista because of very high hardware resources but that's the price for technology improvement.

This insanity will not soon stop...

I myself think DX9 is quite capable of pulling off things DX10 can do, but that's only based on various informations found 'round the net - stuff I recall.

Also another question: do you think they've made the most of DX9 up to now or can it be improved even more? DX9.0L comes to mind when I think of this, but ah...

DX10 is drastically better. I watched short preview of Crisis in German GIGA TV and it looks unreal!

For some 20 years computer graphics will be like reality.

And what about OpenGL? I hardly encounter games that need OpenGL, as DX dominates. Q: is OpenGL better/faster than DirectX (or could it be better if it's not at the moment)?

Still there are games which use OpenGL. I think every game from id Software use it.

[Bijo]

That's how market and capitalism function. Sooner or later (I will later as much as possible) you will have to transit to DX10. They will force you. Hardware and software companies work together - we bring you hardware and you bring us games for that. If you want to play game how God demand, you need to buy new hardware. I hate that but what can we do about it!

I don't like Vista because of very high hardware resources but that's the price for technology improvement.

Hmm, about the market and capitalism is pretty obvious, but besides that.... Since Vista is such a system hog, is it FOR REAL to be called "technology improvement" (excluding DX10 of course in this question)? When I hear technology improvement I think "to better existing technology", but this sounds more like (as you kind of said more or less) forcing you to consume more of something which isn't necessarily "improved" or "better." I'm talking about streamlined products that are superiorly designed, and one question is if Vista is superiorly designed, to be a streamlined product.

Still there are games which use OpenGL. I think every game from id Software use it.

Yeah, that's true.

[Husar]

Well, I got Vista Business for free via MSDNAA, I will install it once I have asecond HDD since my current HDD is supposed to keep running XP at least until i feel Vista is worth completely migrating and runs all my software without big problems.
I already liked the Vista Beta but I am not sure about the full version, my graphicscard doesn't support Dx10 anyway so that is not really a selling point, only if games require it in order to run it might be required to use vista but on the other hand, that may just as well fire back to the developers of such a game if people refuse to migrate to Vista(and thus not buy the game) so I think it will be a while until they force you to have Dx10.

[TevashSzat]

DX 10 will be like all of the other new thing that pop out, nothing would be solely dependent on it at first, but eventually everything will switch over to it and you won't be able to get anything done without it

[sapi]

Unfortunately, dx10 is soon to be a fact of life.

That aside, i'm not bothering to switch to vista - i'm running bblean instead of explorer anyway so looks in the interface aren't really an issue for me, and the main improvements that vista brings are focused on the workplace

[Bijo]

That bblean, or clean something, sounds interesting, fellow cynic. I might have to try it out myself


@Husar
There's an article about John Carmack commenting on DirectX9 and 10, but I can't seem to find it though, heh heh. But I recall he was talking about improving DX9 and not worrying about DX10 for a while 'cause with DX9 you'd reach a broader public. And at the same time DX10 is capable of DX9 anyway.

[BlackAxe3001]

Sweet! bblean is awesome! Thanks for mentioning it sapi! I love it.

[sapi]

Driving this just a tad off topic, i'll give a quick hand to those who're getting into bblean.

Basically, my goal was to have a minimalistic interface which still had everything i needed.

This is what i came up with.

I'm running a custom version of one of the default styles (linky) using calibiri as the default font. If you dont' have it, it comes with the microsoft office 2007 compatibility pack, which you can grab from their website. It's the new office default font and i love it :D

The most useful plugins are, imo, bbiconbox (which provides the clickable icons that run down the right hand side of my screen) and bbsysmonplus (which i run using the below script for the strFormat option, the results of which can be seen in the bottom right of the above image).

%NU on %NW \nUptime: %UH \n \n CPU: %CP (%CN) \n RAM: %RP (%RU) \n SWAP: %SP (%SU) \n \n IP: %NP \n Down: %ID/s \n Up: %IU/s \n \n Apps C:\ \n %DFC/%DTC (%DPC) \n \n Games D:\ \n %DFD/%DTD (%DPD)  \n \n Data E:\ \n %DFE/%DTE (%DPE)

Other useful programs include bbrssreader [rss reader] (left of the image), bbcmdex [in effect a run dialog] (needs some work in the config file to position correctly but it's worth it; bottom left of the image), bbcalander [have a guess!] and bbedgemenu [allows you to bring up the bblean menu by right clicking on the edge of the screen] (useful but clashes with rts games if you're not careful).

You can grab all the plugins from here and there's a useful list of them, with descriptions, here

It's also essential to use the extension bsetroot, which allows you to apply custom wallpapers. Open the style file in a text editor (i highly recommended Notepad++) and edit the file to the path of the background you want. For example,

rootcommand:                        bsetroot -full "backgrounds\Rearguard_by_strangelet.jpg"

Good luck - it's well worth it!

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Wow, this looks pretty cool. Rather confusing, but interesting.

What program do I need to edit the menu.rc file?

[caravel]

I've tried blackbox on XP before, but I've never seen that much of a performance increase. I've never tried bblean though, looks very good. I've used both fluxbox and blackbox on Linux in the past.

[sapi]

Wow, this looks pretty cool. Rather confusing, but interesting.

What program do I need to edit the menu.rc file?

Normal notepad will do it but notepad++ will do it much better.

%NU on %NW \nUptime: %UH \n \n CPU: %CP (%CN) \n RAM: %RP (%RU) \n SWAP: %SP (%SU) \n \n IP: %NP \n Down: %ID/s \n Up: %IU/s \n \n Apps C:\ \n %DFC/%DTC (%DPC) \n \n Games D:\ \n %DFD/%DTD (%DPD)  \n \n Data E:\ \n %DFE/%DTE (%DPE)

One thing i forgot to mention - do not use the discspace (%DF/%DT/%DP) commands on optical drives, as it can damage the hardware thanks to constant read access.

[Xiahou]

On a related note, I'm hoping against hope that Microsoft's foisting of Vista & DX10 on us will spark a resurgence of OpenGL. Instead of being closed like Direct3D, would allow for games to be easily ported to virtually any platform.

I know, it probably won't happen- but I can hope.

[sapi]

No chance, especially with dx10 looking the way it does

[Xiahou]

John Carmack is apparently in no hurry to jump on DX10 or Vista:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

On the topic of DX10, Carmack said that there’s nothing at the moment motivating him to move to the new API just yet for Quake Wars, citing that he’s quite satisfied with DX9 and the Xbox 360. “DX9 is really quite a good API level … Microsoft has done a very, very good job of sensibly evolving it at each step--they’re not worried about breaking backwards compatibility--and it’s a pretty clean API,” he said. “I especially like the work I’m doing on the 360, and it’s probably the best graphics API as far as a sensibly designed thing that I’ve worked with.”

Gamers often look to Carmack to tell the fortunes of PC gaming hardware. His opinions on hardware can sway hardcore gamers to purchase one hardware choice over another. Those in awe of the potential offered by DX10 may want to hold off on that shiny graphics card purchase, as Carmack says that there isn’t a huge need for new hardware just yet, as current hardware is more than adequate. “All the high-end video cards right now -- video cards across the board --are great nowadays,” he said. “Personally, I wouldn’t jump at something like DX10 right now. I would let things settle out a little bit and wait until there’s a really strong need for it.”

Those wishing to take the plunge into DX10 will also have to do so while upgrading to Windows Vista. Carmack, however, isn’t all that excited about upgrading to the new OS: “We only have a couple of people running Vista at our company. It’s again, one of those things that there is no strong pull for us to go there. If anything, it’s going to be reluctantly like, ‘Well, a lot of the market is there, so we’ll move to Vista.’”

Carmack then said that he’s quite satisfied with Windows XP, going as far to say that Microsoft is ‘artificially’ forcing gamers to move to Windows Vista for DX10. “Nothing is going to help a new game by going to a new operating system. There were some clear wins going from Windows 95 to Windows XP for games, but there really aren’t any for Vista. They’re artificially doing that by tying DX10 so close it, which is really nothing about the OS ... They’re really grasping at straws for reasons to upgrade the operating system. I suspect I could run XP for a great many more years without having a problem with it,” he said.

link

Edit: Wtf is wrong with spoil tags?

[Bijo]

Seems Carmack likes the old ways he knows best, heh heh.

[Husar]

Seems Carmack likes the old ways he knows best, heh heh.

He's getting old.

[Caius]

Can DX10 be reinstallable?

I have make 10 steps for reinstalling DX9