has anyone ever successfully used militia?

[Hellenic_Hoplite]

I was wondering if anyone has ever successfully used town militia or town watch etc... or evan peasants and if so what did you do?

[professorspatula]

Generally I use them as frontline fodder. I throw them into the enemy whilst my proper troops maneouvre around to pin the enemy in. They're also great for soaking up enemy archer fire. Place them ahead of your army in loose formation and let the enemy waste their arrows. Militia Hoplites and levy pikemen are much more useful than town militia and watch though. They're ideal for being the frontline fodder and holding the line as the enemy infantry finds it harder to break through their long pointy spears. The thing with militia is you're not really worried about their casualties, so you can send them on suicidal missions and not really care. And any units that survive a tough ordeal, well you kind of feel pride in them at the end of the battle. Sometimes I even 'retire' them (eg, disband them back into the populace) but mostly I just send them to get slaughtered again. Finally, militia have their uses in settlement defence. They're usually the first units to be placed in any breach in the wall, and placed on guard mode, they often hold the enemy off long enough for your decent units to get into position.

I actually play a minor modded version of RTW, whereby all units get a moderate boost to their morale, and the kill-rate is toned down. This really makes militia units much more valuable as although they're just as bad at killing, they can hold out for longer. In vanilla RTW, they're just as likely to rout immediately as they are die in seconds. Regardless, the thing with militia is, they're garrison units first, soldiers second. Their use is limited, but still important.

[Hellenic_Hoplite]

yeah I remember playing as carthage once I had all my inner cities guarded by 4 town watch and 4 units of slingers (because those units have chaep upkeep) and one of them got attacked by the scipii, they had about 6 or 7 units of hastati but somehow I ended up actually winning, I couldent belive it, although it was a very close fight (my last unit was on the walls fighting to the death LOL)

[Severous]

I dont use town watch.

Peaseants I use a lot. They are the most cost effective garrison troops and can be used to move population around between regions. They have uses in battle but as the weakest unit dont expect or demand much from them.

[Ludens]

I won a couple of battles using militia, but I lost some due to their cowardice as well. Their main weakness is their morale: they won't kill much, but they can hold up the enemy for a while if you can keep them from running away. You need to put them in deep formation, try as best you can to keep their flanks covered and keep them near your captain or general, and then they can make a decent holding unit. It's quite safe to use one or two of them when you have a decent core of stronger units; when properly supported they are less likely to run away, but you should really only use them as fodder units. The exception is the militia hoplite. This unit actually makes a decent, if still unrelaible, combat unit.

I never really bothered with peasants: they are no good on the battlefield and it feels like cheating to use them on the garrison. Apart from the latter duty, they may be some use as a fodder unit, but in general I find militias work better at that due to their shields. They suffer less casualties and hence are less likely to run.

[Fate]

During my Ilberian campaign on RTG, i had to use the militias for a good portion of the game before good infantry became readily available, and ive got to admit, as a defensive line, they certaintly have their uses. Particuarly when you have access to good cavalry. Enemy infantry attach you line, as you wear them down with peltests, on guard mode, with the size of their shields they did their job well, holding the line, as the calavry came from behind and slammed them into the spear ranks.

All in all, not bad, when used in defence.

[antisocialmunky]

I remember someone playing a Roman all townwatch game where he only used town watch. He had an AAR but this was a year ago or so.

[Slaists]

I was wondering if anyone has ever successfully used town militia or town watch etc... or evan peasants and if so what did you do?

Militia is alright if you apply Foz's shield fix (half of shield value into armor, half into defense skill). Especially in the early game, militia are well fit to hold city walls, etc.

Without the shield fix, the shield bug apparently took away the shield value from militial defense so the shielded militia units were worthless against cavalry and non-shield bearing units (peasants for example).

Sorry, I blundered into the wrong forum. The above applies to MTW 2.

[professorspatula]

We have ways of dealing with people like you who post in the wrong forums........ fetch the executioner!



Anyway, regarding peasants, I never recruit these. Sometimes I remove them from the game entirely, or at least change their formation so they're not in that hopeless horde formation. Without peasants to use as very cheap garrison units, it means I have to spend more money on less effective town watch/militia, but I find it adds to the challenge. Plus I can't imagine Romans sending out a bunch of weakling dagger wielding plebians to tackle the enemy phalanxes whilst the legionaries chuckle in the background and wait, so that's another reason I don't bother. I don't so much mind the barbarian peasants though - they at least have some armour.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

I use militia, such as town militia and eastern spearmen, as cheap and efficient garrison troops in safe regions which I know will never be under siege. An example would be Carthage if it were locked by my lands. In other regions I attempt to avoid using them at all due to their terrible morale in battle. However when a city has rebelled I sometimes use them to take back the area, although they often need the aid of a decent sized legion to help them.

I never use peasants. They are really an inefficient unit which has the nasty habit of running for their lives at the moment they see the enemy charging them. I only use them as emergency troops when their are no other recruitment options in a rebellious town or when I am short of all important cash.

[Mithras]

Limitaines are very useful in BA where their spear throwing gives them a little edge in combat.

[Barbarossa82]

I exclusively use peasants for garrison duty. Their tiny upkeep cost means you can afford loads of them, but more importantly militia units usually have smaller sizes (Eastern Infantry excepted). Since unit size, rather than unit quality, is the determining factor in public order, peasants are the perfect garrison troops.

Even in BI where some peasants are only half as effective as regular troops for maintaining order (thanks to the is_peasant attribute), their upkeep per man is less than 50% of that for a militia-class unit, so it sill makes economic sense to use them as garrisons.

I have never had a city rebel on me after more than 3 turns under my rule (on all difficulties up to and including VH). When it does happen, it's because I've just captured a city with a large pop and massive culture penalty, and just occupied it rather than exterminating or enslaving. In this case the combat forces will still be in the city and will be able to re-take it, so peasants' poor combat abilities don't matter.

[César Victor]

I once used an army of peasants and millitia to kill off some rebels, some of whom were hastati and equites. I think it was purely strength in numbers that won the battle for me; that's the best thing about peasants, you can swarm the more disciplined units and lower their morale.

[mightilyoats]

I have had some success playing with peasants and militia. Engage the enemy unit with the militia while the peasants run around the back... then flank them. This is useful when all your proper soldiers and cavalry are busy dieing somewhere else. It might just buy you time to send over the general.

This mostly only happens while defending a settlement assault or when sallying forth as they say. I wouldnt put those beggars in a real army :)

[lottrbacchus]

sometimes i take town watch along with me to a siege, so they can man the battering rams and then stay behind in the newly conquered city while the rest of the army goes on to the next fight.

well, one time for whatever reason (i think i realized my faction leader was just in his 60s and i wanted to get his ancillaries before he died), my general had to run back to the capital quickly and took the cav with him as escort. since my capital was fairly near by and had just built an upgrade that would improve my onagers, i sent them behind with a hastati, a velites, and a town watch unit.

out of the blue, a small dacian army appeared and attacked my little stack. they were favored at about 2-1 and did a pretty good job of kicking my butt all over the place, routing all 3 of my non-onager units at various points. but somehow, non of my units routed off the map and so i kept bringing them back and i eventually (barely) won the fight.

end result? man of the hour 4 star general from the town watch unit!!!!!

also, i always use town watch for garrison duty as they have the same upkeep cost as peasants(100) and only cost 50 more to originally recruit.

[SSJVegetaTrunks]

Town Watch aren't as effective as Peasants as garrisons because Peasants have more troops per unit.

[LuckyDog Trojan]

I like your tip on using town watch as front-line 'fodder' to absorb the initial blows and to entice enemy archers to use some of their ammo on them. Sounds to me like a great way to keep your primary troops fresh before being sent into the fray. I'll have to try this. Thanks!

[SSJVegetaTrunks]

Just make sure the town watch don't rout, or it will plummet the moral of your main force.

[Musashi]

Erf... n/m... posted in the wrong forum somehow...

[Laman]

I use them mostly as garrisons (even though peasants are technically better if they aren't going to fight at all), though Militia Hoplites are used in battle, they are decent. What I feel about the various militias:
Roman Town Watch: Looks good visually, crap in battle
Carthaginian Equivalent: As above -minus the visual part
Militia Hoplites: Decent in battle, though levy pikes or standard hoplites are preferred.
Eastern Inf (if one counts them as militia): Better then their reputation, in my game with Parthia they have shown to be good General killers, they get losses but they kill generals better then phalanx units (that get confused by the big bad cavalry charging into their front and drop their big spears and try to use their puny daggers).
Warband (wouldn't really count them as militia either): Good unit actually unless one overestimates its capabilities.
Well that was all militia units and units that one could regard as militias (ie from first level barracks).

[455trt43trg]

I sometimes use militia as fodder, sometimes that even works.

[germanpeon]

I personally think the Hellenistic factions that get Miltia Hoplites are imbalanced for the simple fact that they are phalanxes and have good stats, as if the phalanx wasnt enough for such a low tier unit. I use peasants only to move population to other provinces so I can upgrade them, when I run out of things to build.

[Nik00117]

In my main army I have 2 units of town watch men 2 sliver chervon I can't believe I still have them left over.

They are one of my better troops i'd be willing to bet those 2 town watch go toe to toe with some more advanced units.

BTW I've had those units down like 2 guys in the past :) they still trucking.

[Laman]

I personally think the Hellenistic factions that get Miltia Hoplites are imbalanced for the simple fact that they are phalanxes and have good stats, as if the phalanx wasnt enough for such a low tier unit. I use peasants only to move population to other provinces so I can upgrade them, when I run out of things to build.

I don't think so, since they are rather unreliable and inflexible, I actually once had a troop of Militia Hoplites get beaten by Eastern Infantry in a straight fight. I was not amused. It is just that Romans and Carthaginians have extremely crappy tier one units.

[Ossie The Great]

i always use them in the front line and bring in better trops as the battle carrys on

[Afkazar]

I don't think so, since they are rather unreliable and inflexible, I actually once had a troop of Militia Hoplites get beaten by Eastern Infantry in a straight fight. I was not amused. It is just that Romans and Carthaginians have extremely crappy tier one units.

Well what did you do wrong? I mean i have fought crap loads of eastern infantry with crap loads of militia hoplites. If by "straight fight" you mean no phalanx then theres your problem.

in my sassanid army though levy spearmen are the backbone of my army.THey hold up the romans heavy infantry while my clibanarii smashs the romans.

[Laman]

Well what did you do wrong? I mean i have fought crap loads of eastern infantry with crap loads of militia hoplites. If by "straight fight" you mean no phalanx then theres your problem.

in my sassanid army though levy spearmen are the backbone of my army.THey hold up the romans heavy infantry while my clibanarii smashs the romans.

They were in Phalanx formation in the open field. What went wrong was that the Hoplites only had 80 men, the Eastern Inf 120, something like this:

EIEI
HH EIEI
HH EIEI
HH- -EIEI
HH EIEI
HH EIEI
EIEI

[Nik00117]

I had one of my cities beisiged and it was like 1,000 to a general, and 700 town watch men with stone walls I was able to kill 700 of my enemy and keep over half o my army.

Miltias do have their role. Even late into the game they are usefull.

[audqyee]

i once had five militia, with two mercenary hoplites with the first mercenary as having only 18 soldiers and the other 80. this is what i'm up against:
2 hastati
1 principes
1 samnite gladiators
4 equites
2 wardogs
3 velites
(above are from the brutii faction)

PLUS! a reinforcement from the Julii.. 3 hastati on my back... imagine that

what i did was form the five militia hoplites into a near perfect pentagon, with the mercenary hoplites in the middle facing the most seriously battled area of the pentagon. I only had 1 unit of militia hoplite route and entered my city (12 of them are only left though after being chased by equites)... I WON THE BATTLE OVERALL!

i routed all of the brutii and the julii.... and i didn't lose any unit of my army so i was able to retrain them again. it took me around an hour and a half though...
NOTE: i'm playing as the macedons that is still trying to fend off the romans from apollonia (eastern greece).

[Darkvicer98]

The Pentagon works really well with phalanx units when outnumbered.

I was against at least 1000 macedons against my poor 100-200 Militia hoplites and General. The battle went surprisingly well as i never expected to beat Levy Pikemen,Militia hoplites and light lancers with only Militia Hoplites! And i was out in the open field so that made it harder.