The Irish anyone?

[Nanor]

I was curious if anyone would be interested in pursuing this. I'm from Ireland and was naturally disappointed when I saw I couldn't play them. I was just curious if anyone could add Ireland into the mix. It could be something as simple as just adding Ireland as a playable Civilization and giving Generals Irish names (which I can make a list of) or for those who are feeling really generous perhaps creation of a number of new units and banners, and for those feeling REALLY generous the implementing of a new town called Belfast in the North and perhaps Cork down at the bottom. I'll be happy to give what information is required, but I am somewhat useless at modding which is why I have come here for help. I'll be happy to give whatever information you require.

[Sir Robin the Brave]

I could give it a shot sometime maybe, I did try adding them before and got quite close (sort of) then ummm...deleted it...

[Nanor]

That would be great! If you need any information I'd be happy to give it to you!

[Caddy1010101]

Yeah and I agree with Nanor I feel they should be playable but I don't know how to mod either so if you do finish modding htem in please include me too.

[Sir Robin the Brave]

Any info you guys have would be helpful
I will be doing the Irish kingdom of leinster (who hold dublin to begin with)



The provinces I will add are as follows:

Dublin
Cork
Coleraine
Galway

any info you have on these places will help, as will any historical "units"

The "High king" is Donnchad mac Domnaill Remair, and (again) anything you know about him will help (vices and virtues)

[adembroski]

I don't believe Ireland was in any way unified until the 1171 King Henry invasion, so if this were done, I think it would make most sense to break Ireland into at least 2 parts and have a player only control one province to start.

This would be the more appropriate Irish banner, as the green one (I could be wrong here, I'm going on information I haven't referenced in a LONG time) is the flag adopted by Irish Americans...



Appropriate potential provinces within Ireland would be Ulaid, Northern UI Neill, Airgialla, Breifne, Connacht, Mide, Tuadmumu, Laigin, and Desmumu... the Island is fairly small, so probably no more than 3 provinces would be appropriate, and I'd go with Ulaid (northern Ireland), Connacht (western Ireland), and Laigin (southern and eastern Ireland). The first player owned Irish province should be Laigin, with Dublin as the capital (though not historically accurate, as Dublin was in the Irish Kingdom of Mide, Laigin was more central in the territory I am calling an Irish province here. Laigin is also the name of one of the legendary four kingdoms of Ireland, so it makes sense to be used as one of the names. One could easily go with the name Mide as well).

The most appropriate initial king I think I can find is Donnchad mac Domnaill Remair, but I can't really find any information on him.

[Sir Robin the Brave]

Yeah I was going to give the player Dublin, and have the others 'rebel' provinces. The green flag was used by the Kingdom of Leinster, whilst I belive that one wasn't used until the late 14th century. I may be mistaken, but I still believe I sould use the green one (faction colours and all).

This is a map of what I was thinking of doing with the provinces:



So the player would start with Dublin, and have some pickings around them.

I haven't much on the Irish units, I'm thinking of maybe adding 'Norse Mercenaries' which were historically used.

So any info is indeed welcome!

[Hross af Guttenburg]

Ireland was hardly a faction to compare with Scotland or England or anywhere else for that matter'

The cities on your map are already existent in Anno Domini mod. You would be better added a faction from there

I don't think Dublin is in the right place is it? You've put her in Wexford, she's north of Kildare

[NagatsukaShumi]

I am surprised nobody has mentioned Medieval Auctoriso yet, adding Ireland was something that caused alot of people to kick up a fuss over our faction list!

[Nanor]

Great to see so much enthusiasm. Coleraine wasn't a given name until the plantations. It might be more realistic if you gave them their original Irish names (as this is pre-plantation). Cork is Corcaigh, Dublin is Bailé Atha Cliath, Galway is Gaillimh and Coleraine is Cúil Raithin. As for the Northern province, I'm surprised you didn't choose Dungannon (Irish Dún Geanainn), as it was Hugh O'Neill's HQ and the capital of Ireland, not to mention my home town.

As for units. Irish infantry was made up of lightly armoured, but ferocious high stamina and morale troops. The accumulated of mainly Axes, Spears and weak bowmen. However, in the late period they did use muskets and these proved very effective in The battle of the Yellow ford in which Hugh O'Neill (Irish Aodh Ó Neill) defeated an English relief party attempting to take back a fort. The Irish didn't use cavalry much, as they prepared to fight on foot.The Irish also happened to get into diplomacy with Spanish and French who sent troops in order to help defeat the English. Vikings heavily influenced the Irish, so Danish Mercenaries may be good. As for Irish general names:

Forenames: Rónán (My name :)), Aodh (Hugh), Liam, Cáolan, Séamus, Brian, Padraig and others. (Could you use my name in it, though? :))

Surnames: Ó Cuinn (Mine), Ó Neill, Mag Uidhir, ó Dálaigh, Mac Dónaill and others..

Could you use my name in it? :)

[adembroski]

Ireland was hardly a faction to compare with Scotland or England or anywhere else for that matter'

The cities on your map are already existent in Anno Domini mod. You would be better added a faction from there

I don't think Dublin is in the right place is it? You've put her in Wexford, she's north of Kildare

There are those of us, myself included, who are either Irish or Irish American who'd prefer to play with Ireland even if they are at a massive disadvantage technologically, just because the Irish tend to be a very proud people... very little new age anti-nationalism amongst the Irish.

[Rollon]

Vikings heavily influenced the Irish, so Danish Mercenaries may be good.

I guess one should also add Gallóglaigh. They are in the game already, AFAIK.

[Nanor]

I guess one should also add Gallóglaigh. They are in the game already, AFAIK.

Yeah, they are. They're Scots who settled in Ireland IIRC. Gallóglaigh translates as Foreign Soldier.

[The Celt]

Well lets see. We've already got Kerns and Gallogliach. We just need to reskin them for the Irish faction. But we've also got stock European units like sargents, Knights, spearmen, archers,(probably not until very high level barracks) ect. Would those guys qualify for Ireland or did they not use them? Also, should Ireland be made form an existing faction or made form one of the empty slots?

[KARTLOS]

seeing as soon after the date the game starts normans came over i would think the irish should get a few norman style units

[Rollon]

Well lets see. We've already got Kerns and Gallogliach. We just need to reskin them for the Irish faction. But we've also got stock European units like sargents, Knights, spearmen, archers,(probably not until very high level barracks) ect.

well, actually we have this roster for Archery Range:

Irish Kerns (need to be boosted somewhat, I think)
Welsh Longbowmen (they were actually hired as mercenaries)
Free Company Longbowmen (well, I guess it's possible to use them as well)

next, for barracks:
some unit like Highland Rabble
Welsh Spearmen
some kind of Viking Raiders (don't remember the Danish roster, but we definitely can borrow 1 unit from them and call it something like Dublin Vikings or Shetland Raiders, or whatever)
Galloglaich (with axes and/or claymores and in chainmail)
maybe some Hiberno-Norman Knights (dismounted and mounted), but I'm afraid it'll be mostly a fantasy unit.

in fact it's possible to borrow heavily from Scotland, as Scots fought in Ireland pretty often. that gives us Pikemen and later even Musketeers.
in later history of Ireland there were also buanadha (native Irish mercenaries) and redshanks (Scottish), but I know nothing about them.

using existing units is handy, because there's no need for new skins, just add some green, and voila.
also I think the bulk of Irish force should be quite lightly armoured and armed, but have a ferocious charge.

well, just my 2 pence:) I'm not Irish, mind you, and know nothing about Irish history, so that's mainly up to you, Irishmen:)

[Nanor]

A famous battle was The Battle of the Yellow Ford in which Aodh Ó Neill (Hugh) fought against the English whom were trying to rescue a fort by the river Blackwater. Info.

Some important information:

O'Neill had the forces raised from the clans of O'Neill, ODonnell and their dependent clans. He also had a substantial number of mercenaries in his pay, many of them from the Highlands of Scotland. The Irish carried their traditional arms of swords, axes and javelins but also pikes and muskets, especially calivers, which were a lighter and more portable version of the standard musket. O'Neill had several English and Spanish military advisors in his pay, who trained his troops in the use of modern weaponry. Many Irish horsemen carried their spears over-arm, either thrusting or throwing them at close quarters in the traditional manner.

This tells me that the Irish at this time where a force to be contended with. If you read the Wiki entry listed above, you'll see that the Irish inflicted 1500-2000 deaths, whilst the English only inflicted 200. This also gives more information on what weapons the Irish used. However this is set in the late 16th Century and Early 17th Century. But, it does give information on the Irish.

[Rollon]

Yes, I actually skipped through the Wikipedia, that's where all my information comes from:)
Now, I examined Scottish, Danish and Sicilian rosters, so:
- for Castle Barrack we can safely toss in Highland Nobles — they look exactly like Galloglaigh, but are armed with claymores. This way we can have axe- (AP) and sword-armed Galloglaigh in chainmail (their defence needs an increase) for 4th and 5th levels of barracks.
- as Vikings lived mainly in towns (AFAIK), I suupose it would be logical to put them in City Barracks roster, Viking Raiders (renamed) for 4th level and Norse Swordsmen (if I remember their name correctly) for 4th and 5th levels respectively, standard Town-Spear-Archer militia for the first three levels.
- that leaves us with Stables. I'm not sure about the use of cavalry in medieval Ireland, but it seems safe to assume there were something like Scottish Border Horses, then some javelin-throwing unit, Lancers and some kind of not-so-heavy Nobles.
That's it for Early and High eras, I suppose.
Comments?

[Nanor]

Alright, so any progress?

[Rhyfelwyr]

This is not particularly historical, but seeing how it is a mini-mod, it would be best to keep realism along the same level as the rest of the factions have. Some ideas for a list that will need minimal modding:

Lv.1 Barracks: Gaelic Rabble (reskinned Highland Rabble)
Lv.2 Barracks: Gaelic Warband (reskinned Highlanders), Gaelo-Norse Axemen (reskined Viking Raiders)
Lv.3 Barracks: Gaelic Nobles (reskinned Galloglaich), Dismounted Norman Knights (reskinned Sicilian version)

Lv.1 Archery: Kerns (reskinned merc version)
Lv.2 Archery: Gaelic Archers (reskinned Highland Archers)
Lv.3 Archery: Gaelic Noble Archers (reskinned Highland Noble Archers)

Lv.1 Stables: Hobilars (reskinned English version)
Lv.2 Stables: Mailed Knights (reskinned Scots version)
Lv.3 Stables: Norman Knights (reskinned Sicilian version)

Lv.1 Militia: Town Militia (reskinned Scots version)
Lv.2 Militia: Town Militia (bigger max pool, following other factions pattern)
Lv.3 Militia: Spear Miliita (reskinned Scots version)

[Lord Condormanius]

seeing as soon after the date the game starts normans came over i would think the irish should get a few norman style units

The game starts in 1080. Normans, who were English for all intents and purposes, did not arrive until @1168 or so...and not on the side of the Irish. Maybe some Anglo-Norman Mercs, but beyond that, I don't think so.

[Lord Condormanius]

- as Vikings lived mainly in towns (AFAIK) -

Maybe because that is what Ireland had. The Vikings built forts, then the Normans came and built castles over those forts, Waterford is a good example.

[IrishArmenian]

Cause, well, they have javelins!
Really though, Dubh Linn is farther north on your map, Sir Robin. I suggest using the Gaelic names as opposed to the Anglicised ones.

[TosaInu]