Reputation

[PseRamesses]

Would be great to gather all experienced information regarding managing reputation in one place. Searched for it and found bits and pieces here and there.

So how do you raise your reputation?

*I never break an alliance, unless the Pope orders me to.
*I never sack or exterminate any population.
*I always release prisoners which raises chivalry = high reputation.
*I never set foot in another factions territory.
*I always join every crusade/ jihad etc.
*If you conquer a settlement and give it to another faction do NOT retake this again unless at war or your reputation will take a dive.
*Destroying a faction will lower your reputation.
*Making a faction your vassal will raise it.


It seems that getting a high chivalry rating for your faction leader is the fastest way of raising your reputation. What´s your experience?

*Having alliances and maintaining them increases your reputation.
*Having good relations with a faction increases your reputation.
*Having bad relations decreases it.
*Having a high chivalry faction leader increases your reputation.
*Having a high dread faction leader decreases it (So best to keep your main bloodline as high chivarly generals, and let some other line of the family be the bastard enforcers).
*The best thing to do is to make alliances with EVERY faction in the game at the start, so that you have allies far off who you don't share a border with and who won't be tempted to attack you.
*Give gifts to any ally who your relations decline with IMMEDIATELY in order to keep your relations at so-so or better (Preferably better, because that increases your reputation faster).
*Pick a couple of factions to be super allies with, and push your relations with them to perfect, and KEEP them there.
*Don't attack an ally ever (Ever).
*Don't attack a non-ally unless they attack you first. In fact, don't retaliate even, only break their forces in your territory (This is good strategy anyway, fighting them on your home territory gives you the advantage because you should be able to choose your battlefields). If you let them keep entering your territory a few times before retaliating and taking one of their territories, you are much less likely to take a reputation hit. See, if another faction has a BAD reputation, you can attack them freely without losing reputation (In fact you seem to gain reputation for attacking them, as long as you're at war with them and THEY started it). So let them attack you a few times before you retaliate, let their reputation fall and fall and then retaliate. Additionally, the higher your reputation goes, the bigger hit the enemy will take if they attack you. I've seen factions go from mixed to despicable after attacking me just one time, when I had very high reputations.

Reputation:
- Occupy increases it
- Sacking decreases it slighty, even against rebels
- Extermination decreases it a lot, even against rebels
- in addition, your pope rating will decrease if you sack or exterminate a catholic city

I´ll update this post with tips so that we get a list.

[sapi]

I think that making your diplomatic offers 'generous' also helps, though i'm not 100% sure

[General Zhukov]

Great idea. I would appreciate any info regarding this, for use in my upcoming "nice guy" campaign.

[JCoyote]

I don't break an alliance even if the pontificating meddler asks me to. It's easier to rebuild pope faction than it is rebuild reputation.

Just because he likes to start a fight now and again doesn't mean I have any obligation to bail him out. Alliances are hard enough to keep as it is.

[Musashi]

Having alliances and maintaining them increases your reputation.
Having good relations with a faction increases your reputation.
Having bad relations decreases it.

Having a high chivalry faction leader increases your reputation.
Having a high dread faction leader decreases it (So best to keep your main bloodline as high chivarly generals, and let some other line of the family be the bastard enforcers).

The best thing to do is to make alliances with EVERY faction in the game at the start, so that you have allies far off who you don't share a border with and who won't be tempted to attack you. Give gifts to any ally who your relations decline with IMMEDIATELY in order to keep your relations at so-so or better (Preferably better, because that increases your reputation faster). Pick a couple of factions to be super allies with, and push your relations with them to perfect, and KEEP them there.

Don't attack an ally ever (Ever). Don't attack a non-ally unless they attack you first. In fact, don't retaliate even, only break their forces in your territory (This is good strategy anyway, fighting them on your home territory gives you the advantage because you should be able to choose your battlefields). If you let them keep entering your territory a few times before retaliating and taking one of their territories, you are much less likely to take a reputation hit. See, if another faction has a BAD reputation, you can attack them freely without losing reputation (In fact you seem to gain reputation for attacking them, as long as you're at war with them and THEY started it). So let them attack you a few times before you retaliate, let their reputation fall and fall and then retaliate.

Additionally, the higher your reputation goes, the bigger hit the enemy will take if they attack you. I've seen factions go from mixed to despicable after attacking me just one time, when I had very high reputations.

High reputation does SO many good things for you in this game, it's worth doing the work to maintain it :)

[PseRamesses]

Having alliances and maintaining them increases your reputation.
Having good relations with a faction increases your reputation.
Having bad relations decreases it.

Having a high chivalry faction leader increases your reputation.
Having a high dread faction leader decreases it (So best to keep your main bloodline as high chivarly generals, and let some other line of the family be the bastard enforcers).

The best thing to do is to make alliances with EVERY faction in the game at the start, so that you have allies far off who you don't share a border with and who won't be tempted to attack you. Give gifts to any ally who your relations decline with IMMEDIATELY in order to keep your relations at so-so or better (Preferably better, because that increases your reputation faster). Pick a couple of factions to be super allies with, and push your relations with them to perfect, and KEEP them there.

Don't attack an ally ever (Ever). Don't attack a non-ally unless they attack you first. In fact, don't retaliate even, only break their forces in your territory (This is good strategy anyway, fighting them on your home territory gives you the advantage because you should be able to choose your battlefields). If you let them keep entering your territory a few times before retaliating and taking one of their territories, you are much less likely to take a reputation hit. See, if another faction has a BAD reputation, you can attack them freely without losing reputation (In fact you seem to gain reputation for attacking them, as long as you're at war with them and THEY started it). So let them attack you a few times before you retaliate, let their reputation fall and fall and then retaliate.

Additionally, the higher your reputation goes, the bigger hit the enemy will take if they attack you. I've seen factions go from mixed to despicable after attacking me just one time, when I had very high reputations.

High reputation does SO many good things for you in this game, it's worth doing the work to maintain it :)

Thx for your insight Muashi. He he, I knew you´d stroll into this topic m8!

[General Zhukov]

Thanks Musashi. Good stuff.

[sapi]

Nice work Musashi

[PseRamesses]

*If you conquer a settlement and give it to another faction do NOT retake this again unless at war or your reputation will take a dive.

One odd thing happened last night. I was France, launched a crusade on Cordoba, took it and gave it to the Spanish. Some years later the Spanish got X:ed. I launched a crusade an took it. This time I gave it to the Portugese. My rep took a dive.

[Musashi]

Yeah, I think there's no time limit on it... If you give a territory to someone, you can never take it back by force without losing reputation.

[Armenia_Byzantium]

Great idea. I would appreciate any info regarding this, for use in my upcoming "nice guy" campaign.

Haha nice one buddy

[PseRamesses]

Last night, playing the HRE, the pope ordered me to cancel my alliance with Milan who where x-commed and my rep took a dive?! That can´t be right. Can anyone else confirm this?

[JCoyote]

Just because the Pope tells you to do something doesn't mean the rest of the world is going to praise you for doing so...

You have to choose which is more important.

[PseRamesses]

Just because the Pope tells you to do something doesn't mean the rest of the world is going to praise you for doing so...

You have to choose which is more important.

I agree but RP´ing a faction to be a good cath this path is not recomendable. What really annoys me is that your rep is taking a dive when you cancels an alliance with an excommunicated faction. That is simply not right!

[JCoyote]

I agree but RP´ing a faction to be a good cath this path is not recomendable. What really annoys me is that your rep is taking a dive when you cancels an alliance with an excommunicated faction. That is simply not right!

Why is it not right? The rest of the world sees you turning on a friend as a knee-jerk reaction to a pompous old guy.

Reputation is like what your general social group thinks of you. The Pope asking you to break an alliance is like your local pastor asking you to publicly snub a close friend. Just because the pastor asked you to, do you think that means everyone else is still going to trust you as much? Of course not, because you just proved your friendship comes second to the demands of some old authority.

Now, make yourself a King... a RULER. Not only have you just proven your alliance means less to you than some old coot's demands, you've also proven you are acting subservient to another authority... if you're not a vassal, why are you acting like one? Are you a KING? Or a subject?

And by the way, reputation counts a lot more than just other catholics. Do you think the Muslim and Orthodox are going to trust you as much once you showed you'll bail on a friend for having a tiff with the pope?

Yeah, it's a tough choice with no perfect answer... life's full of them. Get over it. Keep the alliance and give the pope some cash and map information to make up for it... after that you'll find he's a pretty forgiving kind of guy.

[PseRamesses]

Why is it not right? The rest of the world sees you turning on a friend as a knee-jerk reaction to a pompous old guy.

Reputation is like what your general social group thinks of you. The Pope asking you to break an alliance is like your local pastor asking you to publicly snub a close friend. Just because the pastor asked you to, do you think that means everyone else is still going to trust you as much? Of course not, because you just proved your friendship comes second to the demands of some old authority.

Now, make yourself a King... a RULER. Not only have you just proven your alliance means less to you than some old coot's demands, you've also proven you are acting subservient to another authority... if you're not a vassal, why are you acting like one? Are you a KING? Or a subject?

And by the way, reputation counts a lot more than just other catholics. Do you think the Muslim and Orthodox are going to trust you as much once you showed you'll bail on a friend for having a tiff with the pope?

Yeah, it's a tough choice with no perfect answer... life's full of them. Get over it. Keep the alliance and give the pope some cash and map information to make up for it... after that you'll find he's a pretty forgiving kind of guy.

You´re missing the whole point Coyote. X-coms are the devils spawns and must be routed out. As king I´m annointed by god through his representatives on earth. X-coms have turned away from god and his representation so no ordinary bonds or rules applies, period. Would you stay friends if your m8 murdered, raped or sodomized a kid? I think not m8. End of argument.

[JCoyote]

You´re missing the whole point Coyote. X-coms are the devils spawns and must be routed out. As king I´m annointed by god through his representatives on earth. X-coms have turned away from god and his representation so no ordinary bonds or rules applies, period. Would you stay friends if your m8 murdered, raped or sodomized a kid? I think not m8. End of argument.

Whatever. You need to read up on relations between the Papacy and royalties throughout Europe. Getting excommunicated didn't suddenly have everyone turn on you. MOST kings resented papal interference, and some made a point of it to the pope at the tip of spear... and no one else interfered. Papal "authority" was hardly seen as absolute, and he was hardly seen as God's complete authority on earth... especially by the royals. Stop thinking like a commoner. What, you never wondered why the Protestants so quickly found support amongst the nobility? The pope had been trying to infringe on their authority for centuries. A nation cannot have 2 kings, kings knew this, and often felt papal "orders" were infringement of their own authority.

And reputation is a global trait, not just some special thing the game engine rewards you with. It has to do with more factions than just catholics. What, you want there to be a "right" decision that'll make everyone happy and then the dev pats you on the head and gives you a cookie? You talked about roleplaying, THIS IS roleplaying; a realistic decision with negative consequences for both choices. That's what being king is all about... trying to make the best choice for your nation... sometimes by choosing amongst a bunch of bad choices. So make the choice and live with the consequences. Stop expecting the whole world to love you for pulling the line of a religious leader a good part of them don't recognize.

I just received this from a representative of His Holiness:
It has come to our attention King PseRamesses that you have found it to question the fair sacrifice that has been asked of you. Rome knows what it is asking of you and your kingdom, and also asks... is one's reputation in the eyes of men more important than how one is seen in the eyes of God? Truly, what has been asked is of little import in the pursuit of the Lord's work.
Your questioning of this fair sacrifice has troubled His Holiness as regards to your commitment to fighting the heretics. Perhaps an Inquisitor could assist you in reaffirming you on the path of righeousness?

[PseRamesses]

Whatever. You need to read up on relations between the Papacy and royalties throughout Europe. Getting excommunicated didn't suddenly have everyone turn on you. MOST kings resented papal interference, and some made a point of it to the pope at the tip of spear... and no one else interfered. Papal "authority" was hardly seen as absolute, and he was hardly seen as God's complete authority on earth... especially by the royals. Stop thinking like a commoner. What, you never wondered why the Protestants so quickly found support amongst the nobility? The pope had been trying to infringe on their authority for centuries. A nation cannot have 2 kings, kings knew this, and often felt papal "orders" were infringement of their own authority.

And reputation is a global trait, not just some special thing the game engine rewards you with. It has to do with more factions than just catholics. What, you want there to be a "right" decision that'll make everyone happy and then the dev pats you on the head and gives you a cookie? You talked about roleplaying, THIS IS roleplaying; a realistic decision with negative consequences for both choices. That's what being king is all about... trying to make the best choice for your nation... sometimes by choosing amongst a bunch of bad choices. So make the choice and live with the consequences. Stop expecting the whole world to love you for pulling the line of a religious leader a good part of them don't recognize.

I just received this from a representative of His Holiness:
It has come to our attention King PseRamesses that you have found it to question the fair sacrifice that has been asked of you. Rome knows what it is asking of you and your kingdom, and also asks... is one's reputation in the eyes of men more important than how one is seen in the eyes of God? Truly, what has been asked is of little import in the pursuit of the Lord's work.
Your questioning of this fair sacrifice has troubled His Holiness as regards to your commitment to fighting the heretics. Perhaps an Inquisitor could assist you in reaffirming you on the path of righeousness?

Coyote,
Why is it that you´re right and I´m wrong?
Why is it that I´m a "commoner" and you´re a "king"?
Why is it that I´m a historical illiterate and you´re an expert?
Why is it that you feel an urge to mock a RP cath devotee?

This is not the thread to continue this discussion. I suggest you PM if you want to educate me further, ok?!

[Musashi]

I agree with JCoyote, other kings, and particularly muslim and orthodox rulers, will look down on you for doing the bidding of the Pope. That's what your reputation is meant to represent. It's not your people's opinion of you, it's the image you have with other rulers, who are mostly pragmatists who pay lip service to religion.

[JCoyote]

I wasn't trying to mock you.

It's fine to roleplay a catholic devotee, that's great. What you are playing is a fanatic, which can be a lot of fun, I've done it. Reputation represents how likely other nations in general are to get into diplomatic arrangements like alliances with you.

When you're the Pope's bulldog, and jump any time he nods at you, when you are his instrument to visit destruction on the world of men (he is asking you to go to war when he says break an alliance)... it only makes sense that other rulers will start getting anxious about making deals with you. Because they know it's not worth the breath used to speak it if the Pope decides he doesn't like it.

What my little note from the Pope was, if you are truly a fanatic, it shouldn't bother you what other rulers think anyway... you are worried about the Lord's work, not their petty politics. A fanatic doesn't care about consequences in this world, they are worried about the next. So show those unbelievers the wrath of the righteous!

[PseRamesses]

Thx for the clarification Coyote.

Back to the rep-list:
*Destroying a faction will lower your reputation.
*Making a faction your vassal will raise it.

Q: Does giving settlements away hurt your rep? Last night as Spain my realm was set at the Pyrenees and Tripoli. I called a crusade as soon as it was available but not on the holy land targets. I took Caernarvon and gave it to the English. Bruges to the French. Antwerp to the HRE etc etc (I´ve edited the crusade target text file) and my rep just kept going down. Didn´t sack them or had any troops in the regions I was giving away.

[sapi]

Maybe it's interpreted as a sign of weakness?

[PseRamesses]

Sacking and exterminating a settlement will lower your reputation but does this apply to all religions? Moving into the Holy Lands late in the game means huge cities hard to convert so you are forced to exterminate and sack them in order to control them. I´ve a strong feeling that it does as I seem to remember that everytime I´ve conquered the Holy Lands I´ve had a bad reputation. It´s a pity that your rep is only global, it should have been divided into religions too thus making you able to keep a good rep with factions of your own faith while fighting the heretics/ infidels.

[JCoyote]

Well if you want to take the "high road" and avoid exterminating, mob the region with clergy ahead of time to convert their population. This has additional benefits: they'll gain piety and odds of becoming cardinals helping you control the papacy, the local population will become more restless against its current rulers and could rebel on their own, and it can allow you to occupy which looks good for rep and keeps the population high for taxes and development.

A god squad accompanied by spies and assassins can make a city rebel, really handy if you want the city without going to war with an ally who owns it.

[PseRamesses]

Sacking and exterminating a settlement will lower your reputation but does this apply to all religions? Moving into the Holy Lands late in the game means huge cities hard to convert so you are forced to exterminate and sack them in order to control them. I´ve a strong feeling that it does as I seem to remember that everytime I´ve conquered the Holy Lands I´ve had a bad reputation. It´s a pity that your rep is only global, it should have been divided into religions too thus making you able to keep a good rep with factions of your own faith while fighting the heretics/ infidels.

HoreTore pointed out some clarification regarding my questions in another thread:

Reputation:
- Occupy increases it
- Sacking decreases it slighty, even against rebels
- Extermination decreases it a lot, even against rebels
- in addition, your pope rating will decrease if you sack or exterminate a catholic city

[Musashi]

To more directly answer the question: Yes, exterminating a muslim city will lower your reputation, even if you're catholic. Reputation is a measurement of how every faction views you, including your enemies, and factions of other religions.

The pope won't care, however.

[Armenia_Byzantium]

Every faction has a different view of your faction, if you tend to betray or change the stance with another faction frequently the other faction will start losing faith in your faction

[Razor1952]

Well in my current campaign as Venice took Jerusalem ~1110 by crusade and sacked only, I have been currying favour with the catholic factions and this didn't change reputation.

BTW It seems some factions have inbuilt enemies.

for Venice HRE, BYZ (&Milan?) , I gave HRE&Milan 100 fl for 100 turns and both stayed reasonable though HRE attacked and Milan send heaps of spies HRE is now abysmal though Milan is still reasonable (after 32 turns of tribute). BYZ also attacked though its reputation with me was So-so(no tribute). Other factions are all reasonable .

Of course also gave 100X100 to Pope and status is perfect.

[crpcarrot]

i got a question

when you send a spy agaisnt the AI and he gets caught sometimes the AI declares war. of course the human player doesn not get an option to do this. my question is in the turn the spy is caught does the player/AI get a chance to declare war without a reputation hit?

[gingergenius]

I was Very Reliable until about 20 turns ago. Due to various alliances, I have been to war with just about everyone in Europe (I'm English). Making peace with people doesn't work I paid the Papacy huge sums of money for ceasefire and reconciliation, to find that they had declared war on me next turn due to alliances. Same with other factions. So I eradicated 3 of them, (Milanese, Scots, Danes), and banished the French to their crusader provinces. I trained loads of cardinals, but still lost the papal election by 1 vote. The next pope was 38, so I assassinated him, and got elected myself.

Fortunately I had lots of diplomats, and the English pope reconciled me. I allied with the papacy, ceasefire with Portugal, Sicily and Hungary, but remained at war with the French, Poles and then Venice declared war. But the papacy cancelled their alliance with the French so I hold all the cards.

After all this I am 'decietful'. Bear in mind, not once have I declared war. I am best mates with the Egyptians, Russians, Pope and Turks, and am improving relations with everyone else. Can I ever get back to Very Reliable?