Reputation

[PseRamesses]

Just because the Pope tells you to do something doesn't mean the rest of the world is going to praise you for doing so...

You have to choose which is more important.

I agree but RP´ing a faction to be a good cath this path is not recomendable. What really annoys me is that your rep is taking a dive when you cancels an alliance with an excommunicated faction. That is simply not right!

[JCoyote]

I agree but RP´ing a faction to be a good cath this path is not recomendable. What really annoys me is that your rep is taking a dive when you cancels an alliance with an excommunicated faction. That is simply not right!

Why is it not right? The rest of the world sees you turning on a friend as a knee-jerk reaction to a pompous old guy.

Reputation is like what your general social group thinks of you. The Pope asking you to break an alliance is like your local pastor asking you to publicly snub a close friend. Just because the pastor asked you to, do you think that means everyone else is still going to trust you as much? Of course not, because you just proved your friendship comes second to the demands of some old authority.

Now, make yourself a King... a RULER. Not only have you just proven your alliance means less to you than some old coot's demands, you've also proven you are acting subservient to another authority... if you're not a vassal, why are you acting like one? Are you a KING? Or a subject?

And by the way, reputation counts a lot more than just other catholics. Do you think the Muslim and Orthodox are going to trust you as much once you showed you'll bail on a friend for having a tiff with the pope?

Yeah, it's a tough choice with no perfect answer... life's full of them. Get over it. Keep the alliance and give the pope some cash and map information to make up for it... after that you'll find he's a pretty forgiving kind of guy.

[PseRamesses]

Why is it not right? The rest of the world sees you turning on a friend as a knee-jerk reaction to a pompous old guy.

Reputation is like what your general social group thinks of you. The Pope asking you to break an alliance is like your local pastor asking you to publicly snub a close friend. Just because the pastor asked you to, do you think that means everyone else is still going to trust you as much? Of course not, because you just proved your friendship comes second to the demands of some old authority.

Now, make yourself a King... a RULER. Not only have you just proven your alliance means less to you than some old coot's demands, you've also proven you are acting subservient to another authority... if you're not a vassal, why are you acting like one? Are you a KING? Or a subject?

And by the way, reputation counts a lot more than just other catholics. Do you think the Muslim and Orthodox are going to trust you as much once you showed you'll bail on a friend for having a tiff with the pope?

Yeah, it's a tough choice with no perfect answer... life's full of them. Get over it. Keep the alliance and give the pope some cash and map information to make up for it... after that you'll find he's a pretty forgiving kind of guy.

You´re missing the whole point Coyote. X-coms are the devils spawns and must be routed out. As king I´m annointed by god through his representatives on earth. X-coms have turned away from god and his representation so no ordinary bonds or rules applies, period. Would you stay friends if your m8 murdered, raped or sodomized a kid? I think not m8. End of argument.

[JCoyote]

You´re missing the whole point Coyote. X-coms are the devils spawns and must be routed out. As king I´m annointed by god through his representatives on earth. X-coms have turned away from god and his representation so no ordinary bonds or rules applies, period. Would you stay friends if your m8 murdered, raped or sodomized a kid? I think not m8. End of argument.

Whatever. You need to read up on relations between the Papacy and royalties throughout Europe. Getting excommunicated didn't suddenly have everyone turn on you. MOST kings resented papal interference, and some made a point of it to the pope at the tip of spear... and no one else interfered. Papal "authority" was hardly seen as absolute, and he was hardly seen as God's complete authority on earth... especially by the royals. Stop thinking like a commoner. What, you never wondered why the Protestants so quickly found support amongst the nobility? The pope had been trying to infringe on their authority for centuries. A nation cannot have 2 kings, kings knew this, and often felt papal "orders" were infringement of their own authority.

And reputation is a global trait, not just some special thing the game engine rewards you with. It has to do with more factions than just catholics. What, you want there to be a "right" decision that'll make everyone happy and then the dev pats you on the head and gives you a cookie? You talked about roleplaying, THIS IS roleplaying; a realistic decision with negative consequences for both choices. That's what being king is all about... trying to make the best choice for your nation... sometimes by choosing amongst a bunch of bad choices. So make the choice and live with the consequences. Stop expecting the whole world to love you for pulling the line of a religious leader a good part of them don't recognize.

I just received this from a representative of His Holiness:
It has come to our attention King PseRamesses that you have found it to question the fair sacrifice that has been asked of you. Rome knows what it is asking of you and your kingdom, and also asks... is one's reputation in the eyes of men more important than how one is seen in the eyes of God? Truly, what has been asked is of little import in the pursuit of the Lord's work.
Your questioning of this fair sacrifice has troubled His Holiness as regards to your commitment to fighting the heretics. Perhaps an Inquisitor could assist you in reaffirming you on the path of righeousness?

[PseRamesses]

Whatever. You need to read up on relations between the Papacy and royalties throughout Europe. Getting excommunicated didn't suddenly have everyone turn on you. MOST kings resented papal interference, and some made a point of it to the pope at the tip of spear... and no one else interfered. Papal "authority" was hardly seen as absolute, and he was hardly seen as God's complete authority on earth... especially by the royals. Stop thinking like a commoner. What, you never wondered why the Protestants so quickly found support amongst the nobility? The pope had been trying to infringe on their authority for centuries. A nation cannot have 2 kings, kings knew this, and often felt papal "orders" were infringement of their own authority.

And reputation is a global trait, not just some special thing the game engine rewards you with. It has to do with more factions than just catholics. What, you want there to be a "right" decision that'll make everyone happy and then the dev pats you on the head and gives you a cookie? You talked about roleplaying, THIS IS roleplaying; a realistic decision with negative consequences for both choices. That's what being king is all about... trying to make the best choice for your nation... sometimes by choosing amongst a bunch of bad choices. So make the choice and live with the consequences. Stop expecting the whole world to love you for pulling the line of a religious leader a good part of them don't recognize.

I just received this from a representative of His Holiness:
It has come to our attention King PseRamesses that you have found it to question the fair sacrifice that has been asked of you. Rome knows what it is asking of you and your kingdom, and also asks... is one's reputation in the eyes of men more important than how one is seen in the eyes of God? Truly, what has been asked is of little import in the pursuit of the Lord's work.
Your questioning of this fair sacrifice has troubled His Holiness as regards to your commitment to fighting the heretics. Perhaps an Inquisitor could assist you in reaffirming you on the path of righeousness?

Coyote,
Why is it that you´re right and I´m wrong?
Why is it that I´m a "commoner" and you´re a "king"?
Why is it that I´m a historical illiterate and you´re an expert?
Why is it that you feel an urge to mock a RP cath devotee?

This is not the thread to continue this discussion. I suggest you PM if you want to educate me further, ok?!

[Musashi]

I agree with JCoyote, other kings, and particularly muslim and orthodox rulers, will look down on you for doing the bidding of the Pope. That's what your reputation is meant to represent. It's not your people's opinion of you, it's the image you have with other rulers, who are mostly pragmatists who pay lip service to religion.

[JCoyote]

I wasn't trying to mock you.

It's fine to roleplay a catholic devotee, that's great. What you are playing is a fanatic, which can be a lot of fun, I've done it. Reputation represents how likely other nations in general are to get into diplomatic arrangements like alliances with you.

When you're the Pope's bulldog, and jump any time he nods at you, when you are his instrument to visit destruction on the world of men (he is asking you to go to war when he says break an alliance)... it only makes sense that other rulers will start getting anxious about making deals with you. Because they know it's not worth the breath used to speak it if the Pope decides he doesn't like it.

What my little note from the Pope was, if you are truly a fanatic, it shouldn't bother you what other rulers think anyway... you are worried about the Lord's work, not their petty politics. A fanatic doesn't care about consequences in this world, they are worried about the next. So show those unbelievers the wrath of the righteous!