A Proposed Code of Ethics for Gameroom Mafia Players

[The Stranger]

hey...!!! NOWAY MAN!!!

I could always use my Craterus2, Noobmaster, Leoninkhan/ArnoldLol account...

[Xiahou]

I think dead speak restrictions are pretty tough to enforce as a general rule- but I would like the idea of some specific games with "when you're dead you shut the hell up" as part of its premise.

Unfortunately, even if they can't post in thread, they could still PM or otherwise talk to other players...

[GeneralHankerchief]

Re: "Dead can't talk"

I am against this idea very much. If this became a rule and was strictly enforced, then most of the experienced players would be targeted most, if not all of the time. It should be the goal of the mafia to discredit or fool potential foils, not silence them.

However, I do agree with restrictions on the spamming when dead. Capo in particular, I believe, has fallen victim to a few annoying people who just won't shut up. You guys don't realize it, but this seriously detracts from the enjoyment of the rest of the posters playing. Perhaps in future games we could ask Sasaki to comb through and delete useless posts from the dead.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

While I believe it is perfectly acceptable for a host to prohibit the interaction of the dead, or to limit it is by post frequency or subject, I would be reluctant to add that as an ethical rule.

As General Hanky says, where the games were played in that fashion, Ichigo/Csar, Hanky, Siggy, and Sasaki became high priority kills for the mafia -- just to quiet them and force them to PM only to influence the game. These same high-profile players, in a game of this style, would be lynched in the 4th or 5th round, even if innocent, with the town reasoning being: if they are still alive in a game where the mafia can shut them up by killing them, they must BE mafia, so let's kill them. Rather discouraging of participation, no? Low participation almost always leads to mafia wins, and usually wins on the cheap.

How about for an ethical rule:

"I will endeavor to keep my in-game posts current and topical, avoiding repetition whenever possible. I recognize that if my participation becomes disruptive and hurts the game, the Host and/or moderator may be forced to edit my posts or limit my participation."

Specifics could then be left to each host.

[Kralizec]

I thinkt that it would be a good rule, that game makers can deviate from if they wish.

1) I think it's lame if dead people can publicly accuse and expose living people. How many times do you hear or read about murder victims resurrecting and confronting their killers in real life?

In addition:

2) conversation by PM with living "teammates" is ok IMO. However it would be against the spirit of the game if a dead person where to start giving information to people he wasn't working together with originally.

That means, effectively, that if you were working alone, or if you and all your companions were killed on the same night, your secret knowledge dies with you. This encourages people to work together.

[Redleg]

I agree I find it distasteful for the rapid fire confessions of the dead which will insure the victory of the other side. Cryptic messages that give hints is one thing, but confessions after death ruin the game.

[Csargo]

I thinkt that it would be a good rule, that game makers can deviate from if they wish.

1) I think it's lame if dead people can publicly accuse and expose living people. How many times do you hear or read about murder victims resurrecting and confronting their killers in real life?

In addition:

2) conversation by PM with living "teammates" is ok IMO. However it would be against the spirit of the game if a dead person where to start giving information to people he wasn't working together with originally.

That means, effectively, that if you were working alone, or if you and all your companions were killed on the same night, your secret knowledge dies with you. This encourages people to work together.

I agree I find it distasteful for the rapid fire confessions of the dead which will insure the victory of the other side. Cryptic messages that give hints is one thing, but confessions after death ruin the game.

Read Seamus's post. If the dead couldn't talk then the Mafia would win every game cause the active posters would be killed off immediately leaving just lurkers or people who don't even look at the thread.

[Kralizec]

Read Seamus's post. If the dead couldn't talk then the Mafia would win every game cause the active posters would be killed off immediately leaving just lurkers or people who don't even look at the thread.

Read my post. Players can learn to adapt: staying in contact with others and share what they know.

I guess that this issue is best left to the game masters.

[Csargo]

Read my post. Players can learn to adapt: staying in contact with others and share what they know.

I guess that this issue is best left to the game masters.

I did read your post. There's somethings you can do in the thread that you can't do in a PM same goes if you switch it around.

Yes.

[Redleg]

Read Seamus's post. If the dead couldn't talk then the Mafia would win every game cause the active posters would be killed off immediately leaving just lurkers or people who don't even look at the thread.

I didn't say do not talk - just don't provide hard information if they were mafia players.

Sure the town is at a disadvantage for a win, but that is what makes for a great challenge.

[Csargo]

I didn't say do not talk - just don't provide hard information if they were mafia players.

Sure the town is at a disadvantage for a win, but that is what makes for a great challenge.

Well that's just in Seamus's game. If it were GH type of game or Sasaki's then they wouldn't want to reveal any information except to try to trick the townies.

[Orb]

I thinkt that it would be a good rule, that game makers can deviate from if they wish.

1) I think it's lame if dead people can publicly accuse and expose living people. How many times do you hear or read about murder victims resurrecting and confronting their killers in real life?

Which is exactly the reason I support the no quoting from outside the thread (and possibly previous Mafia game threads) policy.

If the dead can't quote PMs, they can't reveal.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Updated to reflect the flow of discussion above. Thoughts?



Gameroom Mafia Player’s Code of Ethics

I will endeavor to adhere to the basic rules for good posting/participation expected of all members of the .org community.

I will not use screenshots relating to a mafia game during that mafia game, unless doing so is specifically permitted by the rules for that game laid down by the Host. This includes my posts within the thread, my private messages, my individual e-mails or any other means of communication.

I will not use an alternate .org identity for any aspect of a mafia game and will restrict myself to the identity used in signing up for the game for all communication relating to that game.

If I have additional abilities as a moderator or administrator on the forum, I will not use those abilities while participating in a mafia game, save where asked to do so by the game’s host in response to a valid moderator-related question or function.

If my character in a game has been killed, I will not reveal any information provided to me by the game Host (Role, Investigation Results, etc.) while my character was alive in the game and will avoid references to that information in any posts/PMs/other communication made after my death. This restriction may be voided by a game Host in their game's rules at that host's discretion.

I will endeavor to keep my in-game posts current and topical, avoiding repetition whenever possible. I recognize that if my participation becomes disruptive and hurts the game, the Host and/or moderator may be forced to edit my posts or limit my participation.

I will endeavor to abide by the rules and conditions laid out by a host for her or his own game at all times.

If I believe that I have accidentally contravened this code, broken one of the rules laid out by the host, or believe myself to be on the receiving end of another who has done so, I will report that behavior to the host, attaching any relevant support information, and await the decision of that game host before continuing play.

On my honor I so pledge.

[Andres]

Given the high number of WoG'ed players in the Capo game, this can be added?

" By signing up, I engage myself to a minimum of participation in (on?) the
" game. I recognize the host spends alot of effort in making his game
" possible. If I cannot participate anymore I will inform the host as soon as
" possible and I will a) suicide in-game or b) try to find a replacement.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Don't want the code going too long, but I think your point is a good one to try to remind players about.

The "I'll sign up but won't really bother unless I've got an active role" crowd is shooting themselves in the foot. It's not like the regulars aren't going to notice that "Oh, so-and-so is actually playing this time...hmmmm."

[Xiahou]

Which is exactly the reason I support the no quoting from outside the thread (and possibly previous Mafia game threads) policy.

If the dead can't quote PMs, they can't reveal.

If you mean that to apply only to the dead, then I agree. I say once dead, you can no longer reveal yourself or others, quote PMs, ect. Let the dead weigh in with their opinions, but not introduce new evidence.

[pevergreen]

I would pledge my honour on that.

[Papewaio]

I will not quote from a private message or from a chat log in the main thread of a mafia game and will not do so in private messages, e-mails, or other communications with anyone who was not originally a party to that message or chat.

Maybe this should be a special ability for the FBI and Luca players?

Wire tapping.

[Kagemusha]

I agree that chat logs and other communication should not be shown in the game.But forging pm´s is an important part of the game.

[Orb]

I agree that chat logs and other communication should not be shown in the game.But forging pm´s is an important part of the game.

No real pms, and no forged ones.

Seems reasonable enough to me, if you want to bluff, you don't need to post something in a manner which is probably very unrealistic.

EG

Townie: I'm a townie
Townie 2: Don't believe you
Townie 3: Maybe he is
Mafioso: Prove it

Townie: OK, here is the first section of the townie PM, each townie can post another section *posts townie PM part 1*
Townie 2: *posts townie PM part 2*
Townie 3: *posts townie PM part 3*
Mafioso:

[Stig]

How about this:
A killed person is allowed one last post, for example his last words. In this he can say what he wants, but no quotes or such what so ever, just posting your last words

[Pannonian]

How about this:
A killed person is allowed one last post, for example his last words. In this he can say what he wants, but no quotes or such what so ever, just posting your last words

Or a dead person can no longer communicate by PM, but can post in the public thread. Also, a dead person cannot quote, but will have to paraphrase.

So previously secret information will have to be communicated in public as best they can, and there will be no quoted PMs, or anything of the sort. There won't even be any quoted posts, which will mean confusion if the deceased does not address a mainstream issue. The dead can still contribute to the discussion, but their death will give them less authority than is currently the case, since paraphrasing without a good argument to back it up will not be convincing. Killing active posters won't necessarily silence them, but their freedom from further threats won't give them an easy opportunity to blab.

[Csargo]

Well you all are making the game too complicated and taking away from the fun. What if you get killed the first round and you want to keep playing? What then you deprive someone of the fun of the game because they were killed in the first round well I don't think that's right.

[Stig]

Well if you post as a corpse you might be spoiling the game for the others

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Well if you post as a corpse you might be spoiling the game for the others

The rule should be "don't spoil the game for others"

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Hey folks:

There are some good ideas here. However, a code of ethics should be short and sweet -- if I want to read a long picky document specifying what I can and cannot do about virtually anything I'll go re-read my homeowner's association paperwork.

I say keep the code simple and let the host define the game they want -- and some of what you're suggesting would be fine rules to tinker with.

We want an ethical concept, not a straightjacket.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Re: Capo drama.

Please understand that once dead, you have not "lost" per se. You're still rooting for your side and can do most of the usual things to help them out. It gets even more complicated in games like Capo, with multiple factions and roles.

If you look back, the dead have had a huge role in most, if not all games of significance. It would be faster for me to list the exceptions than the examples. They haven't really revealed as much information as before, but there's never been a game as large and complicated as Capo.

If the role of the dead is significantly diminished, then the content of future .Org games will change drastically. One of the biggest difficulties for the mafia is figuring out how to deal with a particularly irksome player, whether it be by fooling them or discrediting them. It's become a thing taken for granted. I think you will find that if the dead can't post, then we will experience a streak of threads that lose an exponential amount of steam as they progress. Most, if not all, of these games will end in mafia victories. In addition, the experienced players will have no motive to continue playing as they will always be targeted first by the mafia, and if they're not, they will be suspicious and immediately lynched.

This problem with the dead revealing has only surfaced, in my opinion, because of the complexity of the Capo game going on currently. In most games, it is only mafia vs. town and the dead will either seek to help out the town by posting insightful comments or try to lead the town astray by posting what would appear to be insightful comments but are actually in the wrong direction.

There's no need to lose any players over this. Just please consider the circumstances and the ramifications if the dead were permanently silenced.

[HughTower]

A lighter & more postive note, it is worth reflecting upon the good spirit that the one game I have participated in, CdiT, has been played in, esp. when you consider that a Mafia games almost entirely revolves around debate, accusation & recrimination. In other forums, you can barely express an opinion without being flamed repeatedly & unpleasantly.

As a novice in these games, & a new member of this forum, I can only offer an objective PoV & say that the backbone of good behaviour is already there & well-established. Any code of ethics should be short & sweet, & merely utilised to clear up any flashpoints that have occurred in previous games.

If I want rules & regulations, then I'll go pay my dominatrix good money .

[Stig]

Aye all true, but is it not so when a dead person posts much he spoils game.
Take Sasaki, I don't know how many "revealing" posts he has made as a corpse this night (and he spoiled the game a bit for Redleg I think), but I'm about 90% sure that he wouldn't have made them as a player. Now Sasaki might be the example, I don't know, but I think you can always find some players that want to revenge themselves and start revealing all sorts of things, things they otherwise wouldn't have said, so I think the rules should state:

Dead players:
-are allowed to post
-shouldn't spoil the game for others
-should stay in character, should act the same as they were doing before they were dead

[HughTower]

Aye all true, but is it not so when a dead person posts much he spoils game.
Take Sasaki, I don't know how many "revealing" posts he has made as a corpse this night (and he spoiled the game a bit for Redleg I think), but I'm about 90% sure that he wouldn't have made them as a player. Now Sasaki might be the example, I don't know, but I think you can always find some players that want to revenge themselves and start revealing all sorts of things, things they otherwise wouldn't have said, so I think the rules should state:

Dead players:
-are allowed to post
-shouldn't spoil the game for others
-should stay in character, should act the same as they were doing before they were dead

A lot of those problems have been caused by people forwarding on whole PMs to each other as proof of their authenticity. Sasaki, as a well known player, recieved more than most. Redleg revealed his to me. It is the people in the game who turn them into a currency, and therefore run the risk of devaluing it in such a fashion. There are other ways of proving trust whilst minimising risk, as I found when I was recruiting people.

My point, I suppose, is this - a game is only ever for its players. If the players decide to do something, then the game should bear the consequences. For example, the use of Andres as a recruiter by Kralizec was inspired & ethical (if only he'd had a less distinct style), because Andres is well-known on the forum & acted as a NPC. Use of dual accounts like The_Don by TS, & later on in the game, The Messenger by ????, are clearly unethical, but were motivated by the Andres Gambit.

So as we make our beds, we must lie on them.