A Proposed Code of Ethics for Gameroom Mafia Players

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Gameroom Mafia Player’s Code of Ethics

I will endeavor to adhere to the basic rules for good posting/participation expected of all members of the .org community.

I will not use screenshots relating to a mafia game during that mafia game. This includes my posts within the thread, my private messages, my individual e-mails or any other means of communication.

I will not use an alternate .org identity for any aspect of a mafia game and will restrict myself to the identity used in signing up for the game for all communication relating to that game. Note: multiple identities is against org policy and may draw unfavorable attention from moderators and administrators.

If I have additional abilities as a moderator or administrator on the forum, I will endeavor not to use those abilities as part of my participation in a mafia game, save where asked to do so by the game’s host in response to a valid moderator-related question or function.

I will not quote from a private message or from a chat log in the main thread of a mafia game and will not do so in private messages, e-mails, or other communications with anyone who was not originally a party to that message or chat unless permitted to do so by the game host.

I will endeavor to abide by the rules and conditions laid out by a host for her or his own game at all times.

If I believe that I have accidentally contravened this code, broken one of the rules laid out by the host, or believe myself to be on the receiving end of another who has done so, I will report my behavior to the host, attaching any relevant support information, and await the decision of that game host before continuing play.

[Don Corleone]

Looks good to me.

[GeneralHankerchief]

In particular, I strongly encourage feedback from our site moderator and the gameroom mafia "founder" General Hankerchief.

Very well.

I will endeavor to adhere to the basic rules for good posting/participation expected of all members of the .org community.

Well, I hope all players do this normally, but this is of course a good rule to have as a back-up.

I will not use screenshots relating to a mafia game during that mafia game. This includes my posts within the thread, my private messages, my individual e-mails or any other means of communication.

This is really up to the moderator of that game. I think Graffiti Mafia has proven that some screenshots can be doctored in certain circumstances. As for privately, this is definitely a no-no since the goal should be to convince people of your role without actually proving it. But if the game moderator allows screenshots, then that's their prerogative.

I will not use an alternate .org identity for any aspect of a mafia game and will restrict myself to the identity used in signing up for the game for all communication relating to that game.

Agreed. The only two games where this has been used (Black Hand 1 and Capo) have proven that it does little, and in BH1 the town was blown up prematurely for this instance.

If I have additional abilities as a moderator or administrator on the forum, I will not use those abilities while participating in a mafia game, save where asked to do so by the game’s host in response to a valid moderator-related question or function.

From what I've gotten out of Sasaki's posts in Capo, it seems like he doesn't have an option on this. However, I could be wrong, and if I am then I agree.

I will not quote from a private message or from a chat log in the main thread of a mafia game and will not do so in private messages, e-mails, or other communications with anyone who was not originally a party to that message or chat.

Don't agree with this one. If you get a mafioso to admit he's a mafioso privately, then you earn the right to bust him. Basically, people should be more careful.

I will endeavor to abide by the rules and conditions laid out by a host for her or his own game at all times.

If I believe that I have accidentally contravened this code, broken one of the rules laid out by the host, or believe myself to be on the receiving end of another who has done so, I will report my behavior to the host, attaching any relevant support information, and await the decision of that game host before continuing play.

Mafia is a nasty game, but cheating is just wrong. This rarely, if ever happens, but yes, it is a good rule to encourage FAIR dirty playing.

Very good code you have here. Most of it is just common courtesy but I think judging by Capo that more rules need to be set in stone.

[Kralizec]

Good idea. Some points:

I will not use an alternate .org identity for any aspect of a mafia game and will restrict myself to the identity used in signing up for the game for all communication relating to that game.

Isn't using multiple accounts against the Guild rules anyway?
And does this, in your opinion, forbid the "Andres tactic" I used in your game?

If I have additional abilities as a moderator or administrator on the forum, I will not use those abilities while participating in a mafia game, save where asked to do so by the game’s host in response to a valid moderator-related question or function.

Mods can see through people's invisibility when they're logged in, as far as I know this can't be turned off. To compensate maybe mods should either turn off invisibility themselves or only be logged in when they're actually posting. The latter seems unpractical, though.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

There's a hack for vBulletin which turns off who's online for those using invisibility. I've asked tosa about it.

I'm against screenshots of public things. Sure they can be faked, but it shouldn't be about someones skill with photoshop. Screenshots of someones post in the thread or of the chatroom (if there are enough witnesses) I think are ok because they are essentially public anyway.

Pm quotes: I think this should be against the rules because it's unfair to some of the members who don't have english as a first language and couldn't possible fake a role pm, or another persons pm. Paraphrasing should be allowed. Basically, you can't quote a pm conversation but you can say "I pm'd so and so and pretended to be a wise guy and he invited me to join his mafia family".

[Stig]

I like them

PM quote: well see it like this. Sasaki and I are in the pub chatting to eachother about the current murders and what we were doing when they happened. How on earth would I be able to quote him in a conversation with Ichigo I might have after that. All I can say is: "I heard that...", "I think that...", "He told me that...", but why would you believe me?

[Motep]

I like them

PM quote: well see it like this. Sasaki and I are in the pub chatting to eachother about the current murders and what we were doing when they happened. How on earth would I be able to quote him in a conversation with Ichigo I might have after that. All I can say is: "I heard that...", "I think that...", "He told me that...", but why would you believe me?

exactly. It would be more realistic and beleivable if quotes were allowed.

[Stig]

exactly. It would be more realistic and beleivable if quotes were allowed.

no quotes shouldn't be allowed

[Orb]

exactly. It would be more realistic and beleivable if quotes were allowed.

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick, old boy.

What Stig's trying to say (and I agree somewhat) is that it's better to paraphrase rather than quote fully. Full quoting in CTDC a) Nailed Kralizec, b) convinced me that Sasaki's innocent, c) Allowed me to do a couple of things that otherwise I couldn't have done.

It does add a little extra strategy, but also detracts from the real gameplaying, so I think this should be up to the host.

Good set of points Seamus, I particularly like the no dual accounts one, I think it's sort of taken the risk out of being a Mafioso recruiter.

[Csargo]

Very good post Seamus. Everything looks good to me.

[Redleg]

There's a hack for vBulletin which turns off who's online for those using invisibility. I've asked tosa about it.

I'm against screenshots of public things. Sure they can be faked, but it shouldn't be about someones skill with photoshop. Screenshots of someones post in the thread or of the chatroom (if there are enough witnesses) I think are ok because they are essentially public anyway.

Pm quotes: I think this should be against the rules because it's unfair to some of the members who don't have english as a first language and couldn't possible fake a role pm, or another persons pm. Paraphrasing should be allowed. Basically, you can't quote a pm conversation but you can say "I pm'd so and so and pretended to be a wise guy and he invited me to join his mafia family".

I agree, PM quotes should not be used. One should paraphrase the information or state that so and so - stated this as fact. That way everyone can determine if the individual is telling the truth.

One should be able to quote anything that is posted in the thread. This will be helpful in proving that someone is attempting to mislead others via what was stated in the PM. That way the Thread could be considered the record - and PM information is used as hearsay.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Good comments.

At our General. Yes, I would agree to listing all of these code items with the proviso "unless specifically allowed by the host in question." I would never want to restrict a host from establishing the style of game for which they were aiming.

I personally am not against the quoting of PM's or of Chatlog. Others have suggested the reason for their opposition above. I actually have enjoyed some of the fake "reveals" that such PM's evoke. I'm less happy with quoted chatlog as it is bulky but....

At Kralizec, RE: PMing by proxy. I will have you know that I am not the one publicly acknowledging the existence of this tactic. Since you mention it, I thought it was inspired and VERY MUCH in keeping with the flavor of my game. As you learned, this tactic is not without its own risks. Some of our folks are razor sharp text analysts -- at least after Sasaki and the General's near legendary fake reveals.

Skeptical? Read up on Hanky's "we're both secret detectives" reveal. He scragged me but good with that one.

So I say a big yes, at least for my style of game. A host running a more classic mafia may feel otherwise, but this can be handled in the game rules quickly.

[CountArach]

Good idea! I like these!

[Redleg]

The dead should not spam the game.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

That was the original rule. It got dropped eventually because conversation tended to die off real quick and the mafia would kill certain people (the active players) right away.

[Redleg]

That was the original rule. It got dropped eventually because conversation tended to die off real quick and the mafia would kill certain people (the active players) right away.

Well active and constructive comments from the dead was not what I was refering to. But some of the calls for bandwagoning from the dead are just a pain in the rear-end to read. To me that is just Spamming the thread,

Comments like Major Robert Dump did about a message found on his body are great in my opinion. Clues so that others can develop possible scenerios should be highly encouraged. Clues that mislead the town or even the mafia planted in the thread by the dead are also great. To stir up the conservation.

Instead of the dead calling for the death of the lurker, why can't they plant incriminating evidence in the thread as a post mortuem on their activities and alledged associations. The planting of such "evidence" should draw the lurker out to the discussion, and if the evidence is make to be incriminating the lurker will either have to defend himself against the town and the dead's accusation and/or be lynched.

A little better dynamtic then the calling for the lurker's death I would think.

Some individuals in the game spam - some actually provide information, the spam though just distracts in a negative way. The providing of information however can be used to the benefit of the game. Even if it is nothing more then misdirection and revenge.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I do somewhat agree. Perhaps a rule like "only 2 posts per day once you're dead".

[Redleg]

I do somewhat agree. Perhaps a rule like "only 2 posts per day once you're dead".

That sounds good - that will force the dead to think about what they post.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Redleg:

I agree with you that quality comments should be preferenced over Spam. I don't know of any forum here -- or on another site -- that is immune to it. I think a Moderator should step in on this one, and all players should have the right to request a mod to look things over (or PM the Host to do the same).

However,

Some of the newly dead are just having a bit of fun -- akin to the quick joke posts that intersperse the more serious ones in the Backroom for example. I am rarely bothered by these.

I'd rather leave the choice on this to the Host of a game. Yes, the way the final ethics code will be written, this will be a norm, but anything on our ethics code is going to have influence as a baseline, so...

[Redleg]

Redleg:

I agree with you that quality comments should be preferenced over Spam. I don't know of any forum here -- or on another site -- that is immune to it. I think a Moderator should step in on this one, and all players should have the right to request a mod to look things over (or PM the Host to do the same).

However,

Some of the newly dead are just having a bit of fun -- akin to the quick joke posts that intersperse the more serious ones in the Backroom for example. I am rarely bothered by these.

I'd rather leave the choice on this to the Host of a game. Yes, the way the final ethics code will be written, this will be a norm, but anything on our ethics code is going to have influence as a baseline, so...

Your probably right - just thinking of better ways for the dead to influence the game then multiple posts that really don't have any meaning other then its spam.

[Andres]

I do somewhat agree. Perhaps a rule like "only 2 posts per day once you're dead".

Why limit it to the dead?

Maybe this would be better: 5 posts per day for the living - 2 posts per day for the dead.

Just my

EDIT: a code of ethics is a very good idea, the only problem is, it's only ethics = it cannot be enforced. Why don't make it rules for every mafia game with the possibility for the host to permit exceptions? Every mafia host begins or ends his opening post with a link to the "general rules for every mafia game" and points out the exceptions on the general rules: for example: "in this game, it's allowed to quote pm's". If you make it "rules" like in "forum rules", the moderators have the possibility to send warnings to those who violate them, making it more likely that people will obey these rules.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Why limit it to the dead?

Maybe this would be better: 5 posts per day for the living - 2 posts per day for the dead.

Just my

EDIT: a code of ethics is a very good idea, the only problem is, it's only ethics = it cannot be enforced. Why don't make it rules for every mafia game with the possibility for the host to permit exceptions? Every mafia host begins or ends his opening post with a link to the "general rules for every mafia game" and points out the exceptions on the general rules: for example: "in this game, it's allowed to quote pm's". If you make it "rules" like in "forum rules", the moderators have the possibility to send warnings to those who violate them, making it more likely that people will obey these rules.

5 posts a day for the living would remove the ability to debate. I don't think the dead should be able to debate, just state an opinion once in a while.

As for your edit:

In general I think it's better to enforce the game rules within the structure of the game itself. Violation of rules = WoG, banned from future games, etc.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Andres:

As I see it, this code is the step needed to provide that framework.

Step One = Host's own rules, enforced by WoG (and "you can't play with me again for egregious stuff)

Step Two = Host notifies Mod that so-and-so is out of line, breaching the ethics code, and not responsive to correction. THEN Mod steps in.

We want this to be a gaming forum not a policing forum after all.

[Dutch_guy]

I agree with everything but the ban on PM quotes, like GeneralH, I'm of the opinion that people should be / or could be held accountable for everything they post - in the thread, or through PM. Not knowing who to trust adds to the flavour, the problem with paraphrasing is that denying it would be pretty simple. A mere ''I didn't do it'' would probably work, especially coming from a somewhat influential player.

Also, almost forgot about this, I don't think we should enforce a ban on the speaking from the dead. The spamming from the dead, however, should be punished like all other spam. I see, and I know the initial poster agrees, no problem with constructive debate from the grave, and the non-spammers should not be punished for a few select spammers who make such a rule necessary.

[Pannonian]

Also, almost forgot about this, I don't think we should enforce a ban on the speaking from the dead. The spamming from the dead, however, should be punished like all other spam. I see, and I know the initial poster agrees, no problem with constructive debate from the grave, and the non-spammers should not be punished for a few select spammers who make such a rule necessary.

I rather like the suggestion of deleting The_Stranger's account and forcing him to use The_Don, starting with a postcount of 1, with whatever warnings the TS account had racked up. Read the Hello Y'All thread in the Entrance room for more details.

[The Stranger]

I agree... only this onme thing...

I will not quote from a private message or from a chat log in the main thread of a mafia game and will not do so in private messages, e-mails, or other communications with anyone who was not originally a party to that message or chat.

does that mean you can't use PM's as evidence?

[Andres]

Andres:

As I see it, this code is the step needed to provide that framework.

Step One = Host's own rules, enforced by WoG (and "you can't play with me again for egregious stuff)

Step Two = Host notifies Mod that so-and-so is out of line, breaching the ethics code, and not responsive to correction. THEN Mod steps in.

We want this to be a gaming forum not a policing forum after all.

You speak wise Seamus

That's indeed a better idea, one which fits the spirit of the gameroom better then mine.

[Orb]

I agree... only this onme thing...



does that mean you can't use PM's as evidence?

That's the point

A game of deception, not of writing style analysis .

[The Stranger]

hmm alright... but still... I mean deceiving people to give you info you could later use against you is also deception... using the PM's will only empower your story...

[Kralizec]

I rather like the suggestion of deleting The_Stranger's account and forcing him to use The_Don, starting with a postcount of 1, with whatever warnings the TS account had racked up. Read the Hello Y'All thread in the Entrance room for more details.

I agree...