Karthadast helmets

[Lovejoy]

Hello EB! Love your mod etc. etc. :P

I was playing Karthadast when I notice these strange helmets..

http://]http://pici.se/pictures/RVSa1w.jpg

http://pici.se/pictures/iaVGAU.jpg

They look very strange to me. Like nothing Ive ever seen before. The first one dont seem to give much protection eighter.

So now I wonder, what exactly are they made of, and are there any real photos of these helmets on the internet to check out? Sources?

Thanks in advance!

[Sarcasm]

Sinews. Check the web for the relief of Osuna.

[MeinPanzer]

Hello EB! Love your mod etc. etc. :P

I was playing Karthadast when I notice these strange helmets..

http://]http://pici.se/pictures/RVSa1w.jpg

http://pici.se/pictures/iaVGAU.jpg

They look very strange to me. Like nothing Ive ever seen before. The first one dont seem to give much protection eighter.

So now I wonder, what exactly are they made of, and are there any real photos of these helmets on the internet to check out? Sources?

Thanks in advance!

These are interpretations of some representations of Hispanic warriors on vases and carved in relief. Nobody quite knows what they are, but since some of them seem to have flexible "tails," it appears that they might be some sort of headgear made out of tough leather.

http://www.antiquemilitaryhistory.co.../spaniard1.JPG
http://www.antiquemilitaryhistory.co.../spaniard2.JPG

[Lovejoy]

Ah I see. Never fought you could make good helmets out of leather. Intresting. Leather dont seem to me to give much protection though. Better then nothing I guess.

But wasnt iberia full of good mines and metals? why would people who live in such land make leather helmets! :P

[Sarcasm]

Bear in mind that those guys are a sort of levy raised among the unprofessional sections of the more Mediterranean Iberians. So they typically have only light weaponry despite the fact that they had probably participated in limited actions in defence of their cities, and thus a little better than your run of the mill militia.

Also it was not uncommon for even a more accomplished warrior to have an extremely expensive sword with silver inlaying, and then be bereft of other military equipment, except for a few javelins. Better show off your shiny sword than be protected by a good helmet I guess.

[Shigawire]

It's amazing what a good shirt of padded boiled leather can do for protection.

You are underestimating it.

[Watchman]

I'm pretty sure you do not want to boil leather if you want to use it as armour. Although if you boil it long enough, it'll become sort of edible.

Nitpicking aside, anything is better than nothing and leather isn't half bad as "cheap and cheerful" armour goes. It won't stop a strong direct hit of course, but it'll stop lesser hits that would be incapaciating without such protection - and all things considered it's light and cheap.

[MeinPanzer]

I'm pretty sure you do not want to boil leather if you want to use it as armour. Although if you boil it long enough, it'll become sort of edible.

Boiling leather produces the hardest form of leather armour possible, cuirboulli.

Nitpicking aside, anything is better than nothing and leather isn't half bad as "cheap and cheerful" armour goes. It won't stop a strong direct hit of course, but it'll stop lesser hits that would be incapaciating without such protection - and all things considered it's light and cheap.

Not to mention the fact that it protects against or softens the blow of most missiles.

[Watchman]

By what I've read of it - and that's actually a fairly extensive study - "cuir boulli" is a serious misnomer. Boiling apparently pretty much destroys leather as armour material. Soaking it in cold water and/or certain chemical solutions for an extended period, on the other hand, leaves you with something that can be pressed into shape in molds and becomes very stiff and quite hard when it dries. The Medieval Egyptians eventually went one better though - they basically reconstitued the stuff. Basically, they cut the leather to tiny bits, mixed it with certain chemicals and some other stuff (metal filings and dust were often added), and ground the whole concotion into a kind of paste. This was then cast into shape in molds, and produced very strong leather plates.

I can dig up the book tomorrow if you really want to, but it's getting kinda late.

Not to mention the fact that it protects against or softens the blow of most missiles.

Well, it's better than nothing anyway. But given how slings, javelins and good bows with suitable arrows can give even heavy metal armours a fair bit of pain I wouldn't rely on that overmuch.

[MeinPanzer]

By what I've read of it - and that's actually a fairly extensive study - "cuir boulli" is a serious misnomer. Boiling apparently pretty much destroys leather as armour material. Soaking it in cold water and/or certain chemical solutions for an extended period, on the other hand, leaves you with something that can be pressed into shape in molds and becomes very stiff and quite hard when it dries.

Nope, I know of many reenactors who boil it. You dip it into a pot of water that is approximately 180°. After a minute the leather begins to shrink, darken, and thicken. The longer it is left in, the more it will shrink/thicken/darken. After you take it out, it will e flexible, and then you can stretch it over whatever surface you wish to use as a mold. It will gradually harden for several minutes, until it dries and is fully hardened.

Well, it's better than nothing anyway. But given how slings, javelins and good bows with suitable arrows can give even heavy metal armours a fair bit of pain I wouldn't rely on that overmuch.

In many cases softer forms of armour, like linen or leather, can absorb much more of the blow of missiles than metallic armours like chainmail or lamellar. Of course they can do very little for penetration, though.