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    Default Anyone know how to correctly use spearmen against cavalry?

    see when cavalry charge into spearmen they usually destroy the entire unit even if in schiltrom. i dont know how to use them against charging cavalry. what should i do? and shouldnt Billmen have bonuses fighting cavalry?

  2. #2
    Master Procrastinator Member TevashSzat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know how to correctly use spearmen against cavalry?

    You will always have to sacrifice a unit to recieve the brunt of the charge since most cavalry will destroy anything they touch during a charge. Put one unit in schiltrom right in front of where the cavalry is gonna charge. The enemy will charge that unit and it will get massacred, but their charge is broken.
    "I do not know what I may appear to the world; but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the seashore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me." - Issac Newton

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    Member Member Skott's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know how to correctly use spearmen against cavalry?

    Yeah, its best to layer your lines if you can. Ever notice how the AI will sometimes set your infantry in two lines one behind another when first entering the battle map? Thats what you need to do if you got enough units. In RTW a single unit could hold pretty good against a charge but in MTW2 cavalry are more powerful and can plough thru a 3 rank deep unit. Heck, the way the game is they often can walk through it. So shorten your front line and make a second line behind the first if the enemy has alot of cavalry units. Especially on the end/flanks.

    I've noticed cavalry tend to prefer to charge your end/flank units more often than the center units. Alot of times when I dont have enough units to make a double front line I'll just put a extra unit on each end to back up the unit in the front row on those ends. They can also guard against those 'end run' flanking manuevers cavalry like to try now and again.

    I havent tried the schiltrom in front yet. I usually just make layers. I'll have to give that a try and see how it works.
    Last edited by Skott; 01-31-2007 at 02:09.

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    Masticator of Oreos Member Foz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know how to correctly use spearmen against cavalry?

    Yeah that's pretty much correct in the vanilla game, X. Units do not stand up to cavalry at all b/c of the shield bug. Shield-fixed spears actually do not get raped by cavalry as they do in vanilla, and armored sergeants prove enough to give most cavalry a good fight. Being deprived of 12 points of defense by the bug (shields subtract from melee defense instead of adding) makes almost everyone in the unit die from the charge, where the defense boost from the fix allows shield troops to mostly absorb the initial charge. You still lose a lot of the front rank or 2, but there's none of this nonsense where one knight can kill 15 spearmen and come out the other side of the unit smelling like a rose. If that sounds like it might be something you want changed (lord knows I was happy to have shield units finally put up a fight) then check my sig for the link.


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    Master Procrastinator Member TevashSzat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know how to correctly use spearmen against cavalry?

    Yep, lets put it this way, i have killed about 2 units of jaguar warriors i think on large unit sizes with only 3 fully upgraded mongol horse archers (not sure which one, but the best one) people. Not three units, but three people within a unit by charging the warriors and then have them charge through the other side and keep on running away without giving the jaguar warriors a chance to retaliate
    "I do not know what I may appear to the world; but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the seashore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me." - Issac Newton

  6. #6

    Default Re: Anyone know how to correctly use spearmen against cavalry?

    There are a few ways to beat enemy heavy cavalry. Either you can bring along some infantry units that can deal with a cavalry charge, like pikemen (depending on faction), or throw a line of peasants in front of your army to stop the charge. You can also use sharpened stakes if you're England or The Turks. You can also counteract a charge with your own heavy cavalry-they have sufficient mass that they don't get destroyed in a charge. You can also use the environment-trees, the ruins and farmhouses that sometimes appear on the battlemap, etc. can all break or prevent a charge.

    In my current English campaign, I'm using the stakes method and keeping about 3-4 heavy cavalry units in my army to guard my flanks. I would say using your own cavalry is the best way to do it, possibly along with using a line of peasants. Using your own cavalry would definitely be the best way (if you lack stakes), but sometimes enemy cavalry charges out of their own army and it's impossible to isolate and destroy them. Pikes are good but I hear they switch to secondary weapon (sword) too easily.

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    A Livonian Rebel Member Slaists's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know how to correctly use spearmen against cavalry?

    Quote Originally Posted by God's Grace
    see when cavalry charge into spearmen they usually destroy the entire unit even if in schiltrom. i dont know how to use them against charging cavalry. what should i do? and shouldnt Billmen have bonuses fighting cavalry?
    1. apply the shield fix (fox has a nice program to do that). in the vanilla, shield defense value actually gets subtracted (or so it seems) from the defense rating of the unit in combat. fox's fix get's rid of the problem (half of shield's value into armor/half into defense).

    2. apply the pike fix (look around in the forums for that, basically, remove the secondary weapon from pikes).

    3. apply zhiang's 2hander fix.

    and your spearmen (all kinds of them) will be potent against cavalry again.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Anyone know how to correctly use spearmen against cavalry?

    something not many people know these days that has been forgotten is that horses seem to prefer spears over the whole pickle variety but it is not known exactly why since the knowledge has been lost over the generations.

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    Master Procrastinator Member TevashSzat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know how to correctly use spearmen against cavalry?

    If you read the one thread started by Lusted regarding his chat with devlopers, one gets the impression that the shield bug as well as other major bugs will be fixed in the next patch
    "I do not know what I may appear to the world; but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the seashore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me." - Issac Newton

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    Masticator of Oreos Member Foz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know how to correctly use spearmen against cavalry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xdeathfire
    If you read the one thread started by Lusted regarding his chat with devlopers, one gets the impression that the shield bug as well as other major bugs will be fixed in the next patch
    Count on it. While he obviously isn't at liberty to say what is fixed and what is not, he indicated that they are making vast improvements to unit balance, which they would not take the time to do if they had not fixed something that was making it broken, and likely ALL the things they currently know about that were making it broken.

    So while Lusted isn't at liberty to say... he's given us more than enough info to draw conclusions from


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    Member Member General Zhukov's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know how to correctly use spearmen against cavalry?

    A comment on how spearmen can be, and have been, effectively used since the game's release:

    Spearmen are in the business of killing cavalry, but there is a trick to it. Their anti-cavalry function does not mean they can absorb the tremendous force of a cavalry charge, (of course they cannot) instead they excel at attacking engaged, entangled, restricted, or confined horse troops.

    As such, their best performance is to be had when fighting cavalry in woods, inside settlement gates, in tight spaces like city streets, or in battle situations where the horses can be surrounded or flanked.

    Try this tactic in an open field battle: intercept a charging unit of knights with any of your own cavalry units, then move in to attack the engaged knights with some spearmen. At the least, the knights will have to withdraw. In fact, without the advantage of the charge, knights can be readily beaten with normal sword troops or spearmen, except the latter are cheaper, more abundant, available earlier, and available from cities. Already a strong unit without buffs.


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    Lord, Cartographer and Poet. Member King Azzole's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know how to correctly use spearmen against cavalry?

    Quote Originally Posted by mad cat mech
    something not many people know these days that has been forgotten is that horses seem to prefer spears over the whole pickle variety but it is not known exactly why since the knowledge has been lost over the generations.
    At first I was like Then I was like Then finally I
    Charge, repeat as necessary.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Senior Member Carl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know how to correctly use spearmen against cavalry?

    Wel could you explain it to me, because I can't figure it out...
    Find my ProblemFixer Purehere.

    This ProblemFixer fixes the following: 2-Hander bug, Pike Bug, Shield Bug, Chasing Routers, Cav not Charging, Formation Keeping Improved, Trait Bugs, and Ancillary Bugs.

    BETA Testers needed for the current version of RebuildProblemFixer. Thread here

  14. #14
    Masticator of Oreos Member Foz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know how to correctly use spearmen against cavalry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl
    Wel could you explain it to me, because I can't figure it out...
    Pickles, Carl, pickles. He's saying horses prefer spears over whole pickles. Don't think too hard


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