Any tips on playing KH?

[Zim]

Hello. Tried two campaigns so far as the Hellenic League and got my butt kicked both times(playing on the recommended VH/M). Those Macedonians Have tones of men, more cities than me, and never take a ceasefire!

I tried a Macedonian campaign, but it didn't feel quite right for some reason.

Does anyone have any tips for playing the Greeks?

Is it possible to rebuild from Crete and Rhodes? I quit both times after losing my last mainland city.

[king hannibal]

I've only been carthage but I've got everyones map information I beleive if you get rome and phyuss to make a craesefire phyuss may help you with macedon the greek AI on my campiagn has also gone for rhone and not sure if they have it at the beginning but 1 city on sicily

but I would get atleast some archer units before going there to defend your citys

good luck

[Quirinus Kuhlmann]

I think it's important to get Crete very quick to build up your economy by sea trade. Then you have to sent as much troops as possible back to the mainlands. Try an alliance with Epiros. They are at war with macedonia too and you could be lucky.
In my early campaign I then conquered Korinth and the Macedoneans took Athens from me shortly after that. But at that time my economy was out of the red and I could built up an army, that pushed back the macedoneans in a close decisive battle, so I retook Athens soon.
As the Macedoneans were occupied with Epiros too, I was quite safe at that moment.
Good luck with your campaign!

[Zim]

I think it's important to get Crete very quick to build up your economy by sea trade. Then you have to sent as much troops as possible back to the mainlands. Try an alliance with Epiros. They are at war with macedonia too and you could be lucky.
In my early campaign I then conquered Korinth and the Macedoneans took Athens from me shortly after that. But at that time my economy was out of the red and I could built up an army, that pushed back the macedoneans in a close decisive battle, so I retook Athens soon.
As the Macedoneans were occupied with Epiros too, I was quite safe at that moment.
Good luck with your campaign!

Thank you for the tips, but luck was not with me.

I did manage to get Krete, but Athens found itself sieged before I could bring my men back to the mainland. Then I saw a giant Macedonian army coming for Sparta. I evacuated my men from Sparta and grabbed Lesbos. Lousy Epeirotes(Epeirites?) allied with me and agreed to attack Macedonia but they took forever have get around to it.

Now I find myself in command of 3 islands(Crete, Rhodos, and Lesbos), and making a decent chunk of money again. I have my diplomat wandering around Greece. Looks like Epiros might finally be going after the Macedonians. I did get a ceasefire with Macedonia. Can't decide whether to build an army and try to get Athens, Corinth and Sparta back or take a chance and invade elsewhere(Maybe along the Black Sea?)

Getai hasn't expanded yet and even with the money injections from the script and the VH difficulty setting, they can only afford about a stack from their one province. Does anyone know if KH can build decent troops from provinces in that area?

I could post some screenshots from my game tonight, maybe a bit of campaign history. Record my blunders for posterity, kind of a Zim45's unguide to KH.

[Quirinus Kuhlmann]

I think you should try to reconquer Sparta and Athens. There you have to face Macedonia alone, and you will not have any trouble with public order, because the people are glad, that you're back again. It's also a question of honour...
If you go for the Poleis along the black sea, you have to face full Eleutheroi garnisons nearly everywhere and to deal with hostile inhabitants.
It is also not advisable to go to Minor-Asia yet, because you would get into trouble with Arche Seleukeia, Ptolemaioa and Pontos soon, which is much worse than the Macedons alone.
The getan territories are poor barbaric villages. I didn't conquer them yet, and I think it's not a good idea in early game. Everything full of horrible independent falxmen. One of the best units in the area are the Thrakian Mercenaries, a combination between heavy peltasts and falxmen, which you should hire, if you can afford them.
I think you should be patient, built up your army until the cash is empty and then concentrate on beating those Macedonian hillbillies out of your beautiful hometowns. Send a spy to them before, and check out the area. They are not as strong as the pretend to be!
Good luck again.

[Geoffrey S]

Just for the heck of it, why not attempt to take Sicily? At the very least it should provide an interesting and original campaign. Or you could go for the Krim. That should be easier to hold while isolated from other factions, and to continue to build your economy.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

If you retake a city, make it be Athens. Sparta won't offer you a lot of reward immediately. Athens is more developed - mines, more trade, better walls to defend with (but harder to take maybe), etc. Don't go after Halikarnassos - as the Ptolemies will come after you from Side if you do.

Starting positions of armies and garrisons are changed up in 0.81. A large Mak army with Antigonos is sitting right outside of Athens. The garrison at Korinth is smaller but has better soldiers. Also, your faction leader has a unit of Spartans and Cretan Archers with him on the coast of Lakonia. The maks are going to be hard pressed by the Epeirotes if that's what the Epeirotes choose to do.

[Mordecai]

At the beginning of your first turn. Take all your men south of Korinthos and have them prepare for an ambush against the Mak army from Korinthos. (there's a nice little spot you can ambush them in between Korinthos and Sparta. You should be able to ambush them which will save Sparta from a seige. Then on your next turn you can take Korinthos. Then move your men on to relieve the seige at Athens if their men attack there. And then you can take Chalkis, Pella, and Demetrias.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Good idea Mordecai. I'd also suggest possibly training a slinger unit for athens - and retrain your men there - especially the units you think might have to defend the city. Plus disband your rhodes units at the start - no need for them.

[Zim]

THings are looking up now.
I dumped the money I saved into an army and took Byzantion, in which the rebels had conveniently built a mine. Quickly took the barbarian settlement to the northwest of it as well(which also had a mine).

Epiros(my ally) took one of Macedonia's starting towns(south of Pella) and spplit Macedonia's territory in two. The Macedonians emptied their Greek garrisons trying to get it back, so I Built another army with the money I was making from the mines and "liberated" Greece back from the Macedonians, with surprisingly few battles.

I really love this mod. It's nice to actually have to think strategically to beat the ai.

@Geoffrey S
I very seriously considered invading Sicily, and if the city garrisons in Greece hadn't become so invitingly empty, I'd likely have tried to take Sicily and all of the other islands in the mediterranean.

Thanks for the help, everyone. I think the next time I start a KH game, my starting moves will be very different.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Smart mate. Taking byzantion and tylis will help a lot - build a type4 govt in tylis and get all their good celtic units to help your armies.

A few problems no one has raised about taking sicily are: 1. messana and syracuse are serious. Serious. You can't walk in and just expect them to hand the keys to the city over to you. Byzantion and Tylis are pushovers compared. 2. your ships and your army will be in grave danger on the way over there too if they get attacked by eleutheroi or pirate ships. 3. Your generals will get supply penalties and unless they are very well chosen, they might have bad morale even before they disembark from their ships, much less when the Syracusans storm out of their city gates to crush your meager force which has just landed.

[Spectral]

I've also recently started a KH campaign, have only played some 3 years. Very nice, especially the imersion and the role/playing you can do, my young spartan general even went to the Olympics!

After taking Crete with the Spartan king, my army in Athens withstood an assault by a mak army double that, shredding them to pieces. Luckily for my small garrison in Sparta itself the Corinthian garrison didn't move, which allowed me after some 3/4 turns to concentrate a pretty big army at it's gates ( 3/4 of stack, vast majority hoplitai and akontistai, though the peltastai were priceless in cleaning the walls ). The ensuring assault was extremely bloody and lengthy ( I almost ran out of time) but I succeeded in taking Corinth and thus freeing the rest of Peloponnesus from macedonian domination

Next turn I took the island next to Athens ( spies have been very helpful helping the gates, guess the populations were a bit fed up with mac rule ), but now I'm a bit at a loss where to continue my campaign in a sensible way. Should I just strike north headed Demetrias and then on to the Macedonian heartland, to finish this threat to Hellas once and for all ? The Epiriots are still neutral with them. Or should I pursue a more indirect approach, going after the other island in the Aegean and then after Byzantion, so as to improve my economy in order to build a decent army ? I guess this would be stage where in real life the alliance might start falling apart



PS, the thessalian cavalry unit is only recruitable as mercs, for all factions ? Haven't seen any mention of them in the various unit guides here in the forum... I have no problem with that, since they were so widespread, just that merc units get a premium price, and paying 5000+ Mnai for them seems too much ( if I remember correctly in my khartadashtim campaign the sacred band cavalry were less expensive...)

PPS : every turn the advisor keeps popping up telling me to be careful and not meddle in Halicarnassus due to the Ptolomies interests there. Thing is, I don't have any troops or ships nearby, and it's getting a bit annoying...

[Brightblade]

Yeah that makes me want to stab the advisor in the eye.....

Also, Thessalikoi Hippeis are recruitable by Macedon as a standard unit of cavalry, second only to the Companions imho, and they serve as the bodyguard unit for Koinon generals if you haven't noticed... similar to Xystophoroi Hippeis, but with more élan and a proud tradition of horsemanship.

Mercenaries are a viable option... you may recruit plenty of them as the Koinon.

BB

[MiniMe]

...the thessalian cavalry unit is only recruitable as mercs, for all factions ? Haven't seen any mention of them in the various unit guides here in the forum...

Playing as KH, you're able to recruit them in the city of Demetrias

[Samurai Waki]

During the first turn of my KH campaign I bum rushed Corinth and pushed the Maks out of the Pelapannesos. That made my campaign all the easier, I was in Pella within the first 20 turns.

[Spectral]

Playing as KH, you're able to recruit them in the city of Demetrias

That's nice,I'm planning on uniting my armies coming from Bizantion and Athenas under the walls of Demetria, and then proceed to Pella...

[Spectral]

Playing as KH, you're able to recruit them in the city of Demetrias

That's nice,I'm planning on uniting my armies coming from Bizantion and Athenas under the walls of Demetria, and then proceed to Pella...

[Zim]

PPS : every turn the advisor keeps popping up telling me to be careful and not meddle in Halicarnassus due to the Ptolomies interests there. Thing is, I don't have any troops or ships nearby, and it's getting a bit annoying...

Nice to hear I'm not the only one with that problem. I thought something was wrong with my install.

Smart mate. Taking byzantion and tylis will help a lot - build a type4 govt in tylis and get all their good celtic units to help your armies.

Thank, but it was kind of a spontaneous thing on my part rather than smart planning. The Macedonians had sieged Byzantium and failed, taking most of it's garrison. I just snuck in there like a Hyena attacking wounded prey.

Did build a type IV in Tylis, those Celtic units supplemented my phalanx units very well...until Macedonia bribed the city. Shoulda kept a diplomat in there.

[Mordecai]

Nice to hear I'm not the only one with that problem. I thought something was wrong with my install.

That message pops up when you are in control of Rhodos, because of the proximity to Halicarnassus.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

That message will be gone in 0.81 btw.

[Spectral]

Actually my Demetrias battle was extremely interesting! I had just allied with Epeiros, and Phyrros himself came down from the mountains and laid siege to the city with a full stack. In that turn I only managed to offload to shore one of my armies ( the half -stack coming from Byzantion), so when the mak AI sallied and attacked the besieging Phyrros, apperead a screen of Epeiros asking for help in a battle ( something which had only happened me once I guess in my whole RTW history), and I lent it. Despite that, Phyrros army was trashed, while mine didn't suffer a single casualty

The next turn I landed the athenian army and laid myself siege to Demetrias. A puny mak army tried to relieve the city, and in the following battle the mak forces were wiped out. Thraician peltasts are terrific light/medium infantry, and together with the classical hoplitai ( yep ) they form a nice mobile infatry wing to strike down on the phalanxs flanks.

Now on to Pella! ;)

edit : I' m constantly going to war with Pontus for no reason at all. Maybe because they're attacking Sinope or any other settlement like that ? Shouldn't I get an advisor message if that's so ?

[Brightblade]

Classical hoplites are soo underrated...

[shlin28]

and spartan hoplites are so overrated... (i think so anyway)

[Elminster12]

I have a KH campaign going, interrupted by RTKXI, but I have every intention of continuing it once I get tired of Cao Cao's endless hordes wearing away poor little Shang Yong while the main army tries to conquer Ba Shu...

In any case, what I did was attack Chalkis immediately. This encouraged the Maks to besiege Athens from Korinthos(probably more due to the Epeirotes being VERY feisty, as the map in the faction progression thread attests), so I besieged Korinthos and Akrotatos managed a big victory over numerically superior Mak forces(very close though...the reinforcements were almost on me when the first Mak army broke...that was a close one ) Areus easily captured Chalkis. Athenai DID fall, but the Maks were left in a bankrupt strategical position and the city was retaken within a year by Areus and Akrotatos. I then built up my lands before launching an amphibious operation against Mytilene, where I left up. Kretai is next, then my big push north to annihilate the Antigonids...

[skuzzy]

some units (Spartan Hoplites) are more for show and history than for actual battle. They're not that significant of an improvement and also take double as long to produce but to have 1 or 2 shifting through your armies makes you go... aww look, I have the most disciplined Hoplites in the world on my side.

[Avicenna]

When I played my KH campaign, I didn't lose a single settlement. The thing I did was bring the troops on Crete to the Peloponnese, leave a minimal garrison in Sparta and then head straight for Corinth. The Macedonians ALWAYS send out half their garrison, and a battle on the plains should prove easy enough. The remaining garrison won't be large, so go and take Corinth, leave a garrison then go to Athens for its defence and your areas are safe.

[Sdragon]

Spartans are a big help, takes a while to tech up to them but 1 turn to build is fine for me. They are best for taking on enemy elites and to hold foes in place. Even battered and out flanked they will keep fighting.

[antisocialmunky]

I've always liked the Spartans, they're abit better in 0.81. You can use them to anchor the ends of your main battle line or use them to flank. They're probably one of the most flexible troops the KH can field.

In 0.81 Thorakitai are a match for Romans legions so if you want some alternative main line infantry, build them.

[Vorian]

I play as KH now and have just wiped out the Maks. Now, I wanted to take a rest, help my cities raise their populations that were depleted from the war. Unfortunately, stupid Pyrrhos attacked Thermon and now I am in war with them. They have two full stacks near their capital, that don't move (thank god) but I can't attack them yet, cause I am spread really thin. However, I have enough money to train an army in Rhodos to attack Crete. Does it worth it? Or I should I save money for the Epirotan assault? (I plan to train two full stacks and move one by sea to the north while the other attacks from the south)

[Brightblade]

Take Crete. Eventually, unless I'm totally whack, you will be able to build Toxotai Kretikoi, the best archers in the Mediterranean, and it's a good island for generating some much needed money... plus, if the going gets too hot, you can always fall back on your two islands which will always provide you with an alternative if you are beaten on the mainland. I'm a fan of expanding to Sicily quickly, to mix it up a bit, and taking Byzantion.. try alternatives!