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They're never going to get a conviction on these guys. They can always claim they were just kidding around. Or blowing off steam. They hadn't actually started executing the plan, so they should all walk. I think they meant to, and I think MI5 should have followed them very closely but let them go a little further with it. There's no crime for me to make a plan to rob a store. Now if I actually case the joint, test the locks or something like that, then I'm in trouble.
Originally Posted by :
There's no crime for me to make a plan to rob a store.
That is a crime Don .There's no crime for me to make a plan to rob a store.
Very difficult to prove intent if everything is theoretical. I'm sure that now it's part of one's Human Rights to be allowed to plan such things.
Originally Posted by :
There's no crime for me to make a plan to rob a store.
But, now that you've told us about your plan (however vague), it is. Conspiracy, under the USA Patriot Act.There's no crime for me to make a plan to rob a store.
What's that I hear? The gentle whap-whap-whap of Black Copters?
Originally Posted by KukriKhan:
But, now that you've told us about your plan (however vague), it is. Conspiracy, under the USA Patriot Act.
What's that I hear? The gentle whap-whap-whap of Black Copters?
But, now that you've told us about your plan (however vague), it is. Conspiracy, under the USA Patriot Act.
What's that I hear? The gentle whap-whap-whap of Black Copters?
Can I just say here and now that I was never part of DC's plan to rob the store with the rest of the Org as back up, and that I will happily testify against him? Now, can you please taken me off this flight to Algeria? Loosening the hood a tad would be good too...
IIRC (and I probably don't) planning a crime with your mates can be charged as common law conspiracy, and once you have done anything (the phrase "more than merely preparatory" has swum out of my unconscious) they can do you for attempt.
But I suspect all this is academic as there is bound to be one of those new terrorism offences they can get them for. You know, having an offensive wife, wearing a loud jumper in a built up area during the hours of darkness, etc etc.
I gather they wanted to kidnap a muslim serviceman, video him and then cut his head off. Rather annoying, that, if true.
Another "terrorist offence" seems to be having files on your computer with names like "Landrover bombed in Baghdad" etc. At least it's a crime if the computer owner is a muslim, but I guess the same files on a non-muslim's PC would be put down to morbid curiosity (I'm sure various members of this org have a bigger collection of such footage than the guys who got arrested as terror suspects....)
As for conspiracy, it's a crime in itself, some times with higher penalties than actually committing the crime conspired!
As for conspiracy, it's a crime in itself, some times with higher penalties than actually committing the crime conspired!
Originally Posted by :
The full offence need not be committed before a person becomes criminally liable - liability can be incurred at an earlier (or inchoate) stage
offences are often committed by two or more people who agree together to commit a crime - this is a criminal conspiracy.
if a person embarks on a crime but never completes it, it is possible that he or she has attempted the offence and will still be liable
a person might not commit a crime but encourage and persuade others to do so - they are accomplices but also may be guilty of incitement
https://www.kent.ac.uk/law/undergrad...l/inchoate.htmThe full offence need not be committed before a person becomes criminally liable - liability can be incurred at an earlier (or inchoate) stage
offences are often committed by two or more people who agree together to commit a crime - this is a criminal conspiracy.
if a person embarks on a crime but never completes it, it is possible that he or she has attempted the offence and will still be liable
a person might not commit a crime but encourage and persuade others to do so - they are accomplices but also may be guilty of incitement
Ok, so let's say there is a 60% chance they are released by embarrased looking police (at least they didn't shoot anyone this time), 35% chance they get some minor/unrelated offence pinned on them, 5% chance they actually get charged with something?
We could start a pool: time on one side, likely outcome on the other.
Originally Posted by BDC:
Ok, so let's say there is a 60% chance they are released by embarrased looking police (at least they didn't shoot anyone this time), 35% chance they get some minor/unrelated offence pinned on them, 5% chance they actually get charged with something?
Ok, so let's say there is a 60% chance they are released by embarrased looking police (at least they didn't shoot anyone this time), 35% chance they get some minor/unrelated offence pinned on them, 5% chance they actually get charged with something?
I dunno, something in my water tells me they are onto something this time. They've actually taken the intended victims into protective custody. SOMEBODY must have been talking about a pretty specific kidnap, surely.
Mind you if it is all rubbish again I am emigrating, because we clearly haven't got a prayer.
Originally Posted by English assassin:
I dunno, something in my water tells me they are onto something this time. They've actually taken the intended victims into protective custody. SOMEBODY must have been talking about a pretty specific kidnap, surely.
Mind you if it is all rubbish again I am emigrating, because we clearly haven't got a prayer.
Where would you go? (Just out of curiosity).I dunno, something in my water tells me they are onto something this time. They've actually taken the intended victims into protective custody. SOMEBODY must have been talking about a pretty specific kidnap, surely.
Mind you if it is all rubbish again I am emigrating, because we clearly haven't got a prayer.
Originally Posted by KukriKhan:
Where would you go? (Just out of curiosity).
America. Where would you go? (Just out of curiosity).
Hey...wait a minute...
Thank God Islam is a peaceful religion, I'd hate to see it turn violent or something...
Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave:
Thank God Islam is a peaceful religion, I'd hate to see it turn violent or something...
I dont see how thats relevant (as of yet)Thank God Islam is a peaceful religion, I'd hate to see it turn violent or something...
--> i think the police are on to something here, although whether they will successfully investigate is another matter, their recent record is against them
Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave:
Thank God Islam is a peaceful religion, I'd hate to see it turn violent or something...
Thank God, I was afraid my favourite Christian would never chime in. Now, if Navaros is on duty tonight I think we can all have a ball. My money is on a locked thread before 11.00 CET.Thank God Islam is a peaceful religion, I'd hate to see it turn violent or something...
As for Kukri's pool, my guess is the arrested men are all informants of MI5 and we will find out in, let us say, twenty five years from now.
Originally Posted by :
As for Kukri's pool, my guess is the arrested men are all informants of MI5 and we will find out in, let us say, twenty five years from now.
oh come on Adrian , things have moved on since the old days , it only took a couple of years to get that British agent out of gitmo .As for Kukri's pool, my guess is the arrested men are all informants of MI5 and we will find out in, let us say, twenty five years from now.
Originally Posted by Tribesman:
oh come on Adrian , things have moved on since the old days , it only took a couple of years to get that British agent out of gitmo .
Worse, it took them two years to get him in there and establish their information position. oh come on Adrian , things have moved on since the old days , it only took a couple of years to get that British agent out of gitmo .
God, what ever happened to George Smiley...
Let me get this straight... 9 men get arrested for planning a kidnapping/beheading in England itself, and before there's any information one way or the other, Adrian and Tribesman are bemoaning the poor, trampled civil rights of the suspects?
I'm not arguing that they're guilty. But don't you think it's a bit premature to be arguing they're innocent? Shouldn't we wait until there's SOMETHING in the way of information?
Or is it your contention that we shouldn't arrest suspects anymore, because we've been wrong in the past?
I'm not arguing that they're guilty. But don't you think it's a bit premature to be arguing they're innocent? Shouldn't we wait until there's SOMETHING in the way of information?
Or is it your contention that we shouldn't arrest suspects anymore, because we've been wrong in the past?
Originally Posted by Tom_Hagen:
Let me get this straight... 9 men get arrested for planning a kidnapping/beheading in England itself, and before there's any information one way or the other, Adrian and Tribesman are bemoaning the poor, trampled civil rights of the suspects?
I'm not arguing that they're guilty. But don't you think it's a bit premature to be arguing they're innocent? Shouldn't we wait until there's SOMETHING in the way of information?
Or is it your contention that we shouldn't arrest suspects anymore, because we've been wrong in the past?
Oh Tom, what we do is called 'joking'. It's something you do sometimes if you have a sense of humour. Look at it this way, nobody died this time round which is a huge improvement over you know when.Let me get this straight... 9 men get arrested for planning a kidnapping/beheading in England itself, and before there's any information one way or the other, Adrian and Tribesman are bemoaning the poor, trampled civil rights of the suspects?
I'm not arguing that they're guilty. But don't you think it's a bit premature to be arguing they're innocent? Shouldn't we wait until there's SOMETHING in the way of information?
Or is it your contention that we shouldn't arrest suspects anymore, because we've been wrong in the past?
Originally Posted by Tom_Hagen:
Or is it your contention that we shouldn't arrest suspects anymore, because we've been wrong in the past?
On the contrary. Arrest everyone. We'll never have this kind of problem again.Or is it your contention that we shouldn't arrest suspects anymore, because we've been wrong in the past?
And Britain will be compromised...the next stage in my plan to world domination by the Pudding Race...
Originally Posted by Adrian II:
Oh Tom, what we do is called 'joking'. It's something you do sometimes if you have a sense of humour. Look at it this way, nobody died this time round which is a huge improvement over you know when.
Such a great guy... Oh Tom, what we do is called 'joking'. It's something you do sometimes if you have a sense of humour. Look at it this way, nobody died this time round which is a huge improvement over you know when.
Originally Posted by Reenk Roink:
Such a great guy...
Oh lighten up, Roink. Have you googled 'George Smiley' yet? Such a great guy...
Originally Posted by Adrian II:
Oh Tom, what we do is called 'joking'. It's something you do sometimes if you have a sense of humour. Look at it this way, nobody died this time round which is a huge improvement over you know when.
Humor? What's that? Oh Tom, what we do is called 'joking'. It's something you do sometimes if you have a sense of humour. Look at it this way, nobody died this time round which is a huge improvement over you know when.
I know the 2 of you are being sarcastic, it's the thrust of it I was questioning.
Anyway, I can't have my cake and eat it too. My personal pet peeve right now is the city of Boston not admitting they over-reacted after the took apart the first one of those light-brights. Now, beyond the cost of the police work, they're talking about hitting Turner with punitive damages. Hardly seems fair...
Originally Posted by :
Look at it this way, nobody died this time round which is a huge improvement over you know when.
That is just sooooo unfair , how dare you take an isolated major ballsup that ended in 8 shots into an already restrained bloke on his way to work and use that as an example .Look at it this way, nobody died this time round which is a huge improvement over you know when.
Why not have the shot by mistake in an urgent immediate really evil dastardly plot threat situation , that turned out to be bollox , but they were going pearshaped so decided to throw in some really evil dastardly possible child molester stuff in to keep the flames fanned , until that turned out to be bollox too .
Originally Posted by :
Shouldn't we wait until there's SOMETHING in the way of information?
Shouldn't we wait (as shown above) for something really really firm in the way of information ?Shouldn't we wait until there's SOMETHING in the way of information?
At least this time round the police are being very very careful to be saying "we might well be wrong again" in all their press talks , but the press is still giving it the big "panic evil bastards are out there and they are getting even more evil by the second"
Originally Posted by :
but the press is still giving it the big "panic evil bastards are out there and they are getting even more evil by the second"
Sure sells the papers, tho'. And amuses the masses so little troubles like 'pay for privilege' get inattention. but the press is still giving it the big "panic evil bastards are out there and they are getting even more evil by the second"
Full disclosure: My betting handle at football pools is "Conspiracy Brother".
Originally Posted by Tom_Hagen:
Humor? What's that?
Yup. That makes you one of us. Humor? What's that?
Originally Posted by Tom Hagen:
I know the 2 of you are being sarcastic, it's the thrust of it I was questioning.
Well, I'm not as cynical as Tribesy here, but then I have not been a close observer of the 'great Irish game' as played by the British authorities for decades. If I had, I guess I wouldn't be surprised about the weirdest scenarios. I know the 2 of you are being sarcastic, it's the thrust of it I was questioning.
That Boston thing was a prank, right? So who is to blame if they took it for a real threat?
Should the citizens sue the city?
Originally Posted by Tribesman:
That is just sooooo unfair , how dare you take an isolated major ballsup that ended in 8 shots into an already restrained bloke on his way to work and use that as an example .
Look, don't you make fun of me. I have this neurological disease that makes me recall things that go back further than this morning's newspapers. I have been seeing a specialist about it, but there is little they can do.That is just sooooo unfair , how dare you take an isolated major ballsup that ended in 8 shots into an already restrained bloke on his way to work and use that as an example .
How 'bout that, eh?
Originally Posted by Adrian II:
Look, don't you make fun of me. I have this neurological disease that makes me recall things that go back further than this morning's newspapers. I have been seeing a specialist about it, but there is little they can do.
How 'bout that, eh?
Nothing a little lobotomy won't solve.Look, don't you make fun of me. I have this neurological disease that makes me recall things that go back further than this morning's newspapers. I have been seeing a specialist about it, but there is little they can do.
How 'bout that, eh?
Originally Posted by :
Look, don't you make fun of me. I have this neurological disease that makes me recall things that go back further than this morning's newspapers. I have been seeing a specialist about it, but there is little they can do.
How 'bout that, eh?
Your specialist is rubbish , a simple cure is readily available . Look, don't you make fun of me. I have this neurological disease that makes me recall things that go back further than this morning's newspapers. I have been seeing a specialist about it, but there is little they can do.
How 'bout that, eh?
You need to become a politician , the memory will disappear so well that you will have no recollection anything much .
Originally Posted by :
Well, I'm not as cynical as Tribesy here, but then I have not been a close observer of the 'great Irish game' as played by the British authorities for decades. If I had, I guess I wouldn't be surprised about the weirdest scenarios.
Ain't that the thing .Well, I'm not as cynical as Tribesy here, but then I have not been a close observer of the 'great Irish game' as played by the British authorities for decades. If I had, I guess I wouldn't be surprised about the weirdest scenarios.
Yesterday at work this fella reads the newspaper and gives it the "look they got some more of the terrorist ******* over there " .
A quick "oi you fat ******* , how many times did you get taken in as a terrorist ******** while you were over there ?" shut him up pretty quick .
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