The Midgard Saga [Concluded]

[Redleg]

Thanks Redleg -- I'd skimmed too quickly, I see. You are right and my lynch was mis-placed.

Sorry for that Disco.

No problem - someone had to be lynched that round - I just want a better answer for the bandwagon being strated then the old - he was "lurking" that Sasaki proffered as the reason.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

No problem - someone had to be lynched that round - I just want a better answer for the bandwagon being strated then the old - he was "lurking" that Sasaki proffered as the reason.

Who do you think would have been a better candidate?

The only reason for lynching a lurker is that they are lurking.

Reenk has really done a number on you lol.

[Csargo]

Who do you think would have been a better candidate?

The only reason for lynching a lurker is that they are lurking.

Reenk has really done a number on you lol.

Yeah seems so. I've provided evidence that RR is lieing, but that doesn't seem to convince him.

[Csargo]

Again with the false conclusion hiding behind a question. I said he was being more consistent. You on the other hand are being inconsistent. Inconsistent is normally the tell of someone stating falsehoods. Now if you don't understand that statement maybe I will explain it into more detail. But most likely I won't. At least not until you provide a satifactory (SP) answer to tie up the inconsistency in your own statements.



Oh don't worry - once I settle your role and status to my satifisation, then I will decide if Reenk needs futher pursuit to insure he is telling the truth. Or I could just support Seamus and his claim of being a god. It seems that since both gods have challenged eac other that at a minimum they have a 1/3 possiblity to the Holmgang without any other factors included in the odds of that, and all six possible challenges are actually filled. Other factors could increase their probablity to include not all six challenges are done. Plus I suspect that one of the game conditions is that once one of the gods challenge another god - their duel is fought above all others.

Right now however you have not explained away your own inconsistency.

So after this night phase - I wonder if you can explain enough to avoid the lynch.

Point out my inconsistency's and I'll be happy to explain them.

[Redleg]

Who do you think would have been a better candidate?

The only reason for lynching a lurker is that they are lurking.

pevergreen whom I voted for. Ichigo was also a better candidate. Even Reenk himself was a better candidate for the lynch.


Now there is a lurker who is also dong good for the town - that only lurks in the thread because they don't want to give themselves away as of yet. So lynching lurkers is not always the right answer.

Reenk has really done a number on you lol.

This is a false conclusion. You mistake my arguement toward Ichigo as being something other then it is.

It must be because of your own inconsistent arguement presentation, leads you to make leaps and jumps in logic that are not present in the discussion.

I find that rather interesting considering the last two games you tried this same tactic where you were one of the mafia players. So is this inconsistency an indication that you to are jotun?

[Redleg]

Point out my inconsistency's and I'll be happy to explain them.

No, not right now. I want you to present your arguement about the accusations that Reenk has raised. Don't cut and paste your old arguement because that in itself was inconsistent in answering the comments.

To make it simple address the following.

Why did you send the PM mentioned to Reenk? The actual content of the PM is questionable as it is presented so far, so the intent (the why) would demonstrate which one of you is actually telling the truth.


How did you know to send the PM to Reenk that he was a god? Name he source of your information.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

So far, I think my challenge will stand.

Ichigo:

All Redleg has said to you is that: Reenk lying on some points does not automatically render his othe points invalid. I haven't heard him saying he thinks Loki is "da bomb" and that he's following orders from same.

How and why is Reenk wrong to label you a jotun? I accept that his holmgang challenge of you proves nothing but his belief that he can kill you. You did seem unusually well informed at the outset.

Redleg:

To what extent do you buy into Ichigo's counter to Reenk and labeling of some of those points as lies. If you do buy in, does this cast all of Reenk's role claims in a less reliable light?

So far, I haven't seen Sasaki acting out of character with his past performances. Mind you, he's a facile fellow, so that isn't a guarantee of anything, but his hammering of lurkers in the early and mid-game isn't too out of line for his norms.

[Redleg]

Yeah seems so. I've provided evidence that RR is lieing, but that doesn't seem to convince him.

Actually you both have provide evidence that both of you are not telling the truth. The difference is that Reenk has been more consistent in his statements where you have gone all over the place with yours.

So like you attempted in the mini-game - your going to have to be very precise in your response. But unlike you, I wont be blind to the actual truth of the statement.

A consistent and logical answer will do.

[Csargo]

No, not right now. I want you to present your arguement about the accusations that Reenk has raised. Don't cut and paste your old arguement because that in itself was inconsistent in answering the comments.

To make it simple address the following.

Why did you send the PM mentioned to Reenk? The actual content of the PM is questionable as it is presented so far, so the intent (the why) would demonstrate which one of you is actually telling the truth.


How did you know to send the PM to Reenk that he was a god? Name he source of your information.

Alright number one: Because I knew that there was a God somewhere(because Sigurd let it slip in the chat as I've said before) and I really had no reason to PM him other than curiousity.

2: Like I stated above Sigurd let it slip in the chat that there might be a God role and since no one else knew(I don't think) about this(except for GH who I told) I was curious. I had no reason not to believe his claim.

[Redleg]

To what extent do you buy into Ichigo's counter to Reenk and labeling of some of those points as lies.

Oh I believe they are both lying about the PM and chat room discussion. To much inconsistency in Ichigo's statements, and to much logic formulation in Reenk's. The only way to sort out which one is lieing is to go into detail on one of them. So I have decided to focus on Ichigo for now because I focused on Reenk earlier. Once I determine Ichigo's truth - then I can re-examine Reenk for any inconsistency in his actual statements

If you do buy in, does this cast all of Reenk's role claims in a less reliable light?

I think the Holmgang between you and Reenk will resolve that issue. If you win the duel - it removes Reenk from the game. My vote for lynch right now tetters between Ichigo, Reenk, and pevergreen. As stated before one will be settled in the holmgang, the other can be settled by a consistent and truthful answer . Now for pevergreen he still has to answer a question posed - which he has not done, or I did not see.

So far, I haven't seen Sasaki acting out of character with his past performances. Mind you, he's a facile fellow, so that isn't a guarantee of anything, but his hammering of lurkers in the early and mid-game isn't too out of line for his norms.

Maybe - maybe not. I distrust his logic and his method. It does not seem pro-town.

[Csargo]

So far, I think my challenge will stand.

Ichigo:

All Redleg has said to you is that: Reenk lying on some points does not automatically render his othe points invalid. I haven't heard him saying he thinks Loki is "da bomb" and that he's following orders from same.

How and why is Reenk wrong to label you a jotun? I accept that his holmgang challenge of you proves nothing but his belief that he can kill you. You did seem unusually well informed at the outset.

Cause I'm not. He's a God I'm sure he could beat a mere mortal. That's a perk to being a chat regular, of course Sigurd would never say that what I've know from the beginning is what he either told me or let slip in the chat, wouldn't you agree?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

pevergreen whom I voted for. Ichigo was also a better candidate. Even Reenk himself was a better candidate for the lynch.


Now there is a lurker who is also dong good for the town - that only lurks in the thread because they don't want to give themselves away as of yet. So lynching lurkers is not always the right answer.

lol, why pevergreen? No point in lynching reenk since seamus wants to take him. There is no case against Ichigo as far as I'm concerned.

This is a false conclusion. You mistake my arguement toward Ichigo as being something other then it is.

It must be because of your own inconsistent arguement presentation, leads you to make leaps and jumps in logic that are not present in the discussion.

I find that rather interesting considering the last two games you tried this same tactic where you were one of the mafia players. So is this inconsistency an indication that you to are jotun?

Then why don't you just say what it is? This is the reason simple discussions turn into multi page discourses. You're buying into Reenk's chaos causing attempt and distracting the town. We aren't going to find Jotun with you, me, ichigo, reenk and seamus being 95% of the posts. You may think you're patiently uncovering the truth about ichigo but you are allowing lot's of people to slip under the radar.

[Redleg]

Alright number one: Because I knew that there was a God somewhere(because Sigurd let it slip in the chat as I've said before) and I really had no reason to PM him other than curiousity.

That doesn not explain the targeting of Reenk for that PM. For instance in one game you had me lynched for exhibiting this same type of curiousity, so using the logic you exhibited in that game - along with Sasaki you deserve to be lynched and/or challenged in this game. So far this answer does not explain away that condition given your use of it in an earlier game.

2: Like I stated above Sigurd let it slip in the chat that there might be a God role and since no one else knew(I don't think) about this(except for GH who I told) I was curious. I had no reason not to believe his claim.

See above. Not a completely satificatory answer. Why did you pick Reenk to send the PM to. There are other players in this game. Why did you use the jotun in the message?

[Csargo]

That doesn not explain the targeting of Reenk for that PM. For instance in one game you had me lynched for exhibiting this same type of curiousity, so using the logic you exhibited in that game - along with Sasaki you deserve to be lynched and/or challenged in this game. So far this answer does not explain away that condition given your use of it in an earlier game.

Well considering the fact that RR is the only one who revealed he was a God and I thought no one else knew about God roles then he was the only likely candidate, don't you think? No, you weren't lynched because of your curiousity you were lynched because you bandwagoned, and then you decided to rhyme instead of actually coming up with a reason why you shouldn't have been lynched. I have no idea what your last line is refering too.

See above. Not a completely satificatory answer. Why did you pick Reenk to send the PM to. There are other players in this game. Why did you use the jotun in the message?

Answered that above. Which one my version of the events or Reenk's?

[Csargo]

I think the Holmgang between you and Reenk will resolve that issue. If you win the duel - it removes Reenk from the game. My vote for lynch right now tetters between Ichigo, Reenk, and pevergreen. As stated before one will be settled in the holmgang, the other can be settled by a consistent and truthful answer . Now for pevergreen he still has to answer a question posed - which he has not done, or I did not see.

So why isn't Sasaki on your list of lynch votes? You've stated that he don't think he's a pro-town role, and you've stated he's been inconsistent. Why not him too, Redleg?

[Redleg]

lol, why pevergreen? No point in lynching reenk since seamus wants to take him. There is no case against Ichigo as far as I'm concerned.

If you were paying attention to the thread - you would have seen the reason. It was simply because he wanted to pledge loyality to Loki for smitting me after the reveal of my role.

That would place you in the same postion as Ichigo using your logic as demonstrated in previous games. So I add you to the list of suspects once again.

Then why don't you just say what it is?

It seems you have not been reading the discussion either.

This is the reason simple discussions turn into multi page discourses. You're buying into Reenk's chaos causing attempt and distracting the town. We aren't going to find Jotun with you, me, ichigo, reenk and seamus being 95% of the posts. You may think you're patiently uncovering the truth about ichigo but you are allowing lot's of people to slip under the radar.

Tsk tsk - not a valid arguement. The voting phase is not going on at this time - its night phase. So no distraction being done to the town about whom to lynch. When the lynch vote comes I will provide the details on the individual I want to vote for. Until then the discourse is valid. I chose to pick one individual at a time to discuss - versus discussing the many. Discussing many people at this time has no value, since not enough information is present to look at the many.

I like discussion - it opens up the avenues that present the truth,

[Redleg]

So why isn't Sasaki on your list of lynch votes? You've stated that he don't think he's a pro-town role, and you've stated he's been inconsistent. Why not him too, Redleg?

Later prehaps when I decide that he to is not for the town. Right now his inconsistency does not demonstrate a pro-jotun postion. where your answers to the questions still demonstrate a desire to decieve the town.

[Redleg]

Well considering the fact that RR is the only one who revealed he was a God and I thought no one else knew about God roles then he was the only likely candidate, don't you think?

That explains one part but not the other.

No, you weren't lynched because of your curiousity you were lynched because you bandwagoned, and then you decided to rhyme instead of actually coming up with a reason why you shouldn't have been lynched. I have no idea what your last line is refering too.

Tsk tsk - you seemly don't remember that discussion do you. I pointed out several times where you had alreadly made up your mind - so you were blind to the truth. I also informed you that I was the detective but you closed your mind to that postion from the get-go. You will need to figure out what it means. Curosity killed the cat is the clue you need.

Answered that above. Which one my version of the events or Reenk's?

Yours - still waiting on the answer of why the jotun reference in the message.

[Reenk Roink]

Ichigo, I have already done a great job exposing your inconsistencies. You have not got one on me. The only inconsistent thing I did was to have contact with both the Jotun and the town at one point, and given my circumstances , it is understandable.

On the other hand, I have answered all the challenges posed at me with clarity and poise. You are logically confused in your statements, and inconsistency shows.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Tsk tsk - not a valid arguement. The voting phase is not going on at this time - its night phase. So no distraction being done to the town about whom to lynch. When the lynch vote comes I will provide the details on the individual I want to vote for. Until then the discourse is valid. I chose to pick one individual at a time to discuss - versus discussing the many. Discussing many people at this time has no value, since not enough information is present to look at the many.

I like discussion - it opens up the avenues that present the truth,

Oh I have been reading, but since we've been discussing this for 8 fricken pages I lose track of the details. Really, I could have told you as soon as Reenk revealed as loki that he would try and frame someone. I think I did actually. We do not need to be spending time on this. If you keep pursuing this we are going to end up like Capo, a few people talking and the rest popping in to say "to many words" and then leaving.

Discussion during the night phase is important, and it should be on target. You qualify as an honorary Jotun at this moment. Distracting the town is one of the worst of the townie sins. We don't need to rehash Ichigo anymore. Read some past games with reenk, put yourself in his shoes as loki, and the rest will become evident.

Oh, by the way, there's something in one of my other posts in this thread, and another very importang in a thread in one of the other forums, that you should read and respond too--or else I'll be placing you on my suspects list

I couldn't possible summarize them here though. Maybe I will after another 2 or 3 pages of uselessness.

[Csargo]

That explains one part but not the other.



Tsk tsk - you seemly don't remember that discussion do you. I pointed out several times where you had alreadly made up your mind - so you were blind to the truth. I also informed you that I was the detective but you closed your mind to that postion from the get-go. You will need to figure out what it means. Curosity killed the cat is the clue you need.



Yours - still waiting on the answer of why the jotun reference in the message.

There isn't a Jotun reference in the message.


I won't be bothered with repeating the same things over and over for pages. I've given you my answer choose to believe them or not.

@RR:https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=748

[Redleg]

Oh I have been reading, but since we've been discussing this for 8 fricken pages I lose track of the details. Really, I could have told you as soon as Reenk revealed as loki that he would try and frame someone. I think I did actually. We do not need to be spending time on this. If you keep pursuing this we are going to end up like Capo, a few people talking and the rest popping in to say "to many words" and then leaving.

And this frighten you why?

Discussion during the night phase is important, and it should be on target. You qualify as an honorary Jotun at this moment. Distracting the town is one of the worst of the townie sins. We don't need to rehash Ichigo anymore. Read some past games with reenk, put yourself in his shoes as loki, and the rest will become evident.

Again until Ichigo provides a full accounting then it needs to be rehashed. I wonder why you are attempting to redirect the focus from his lies to Reenk's possible lies.

Oh, by the way, there's something in one of my other posts in this thread, and another very importang in a thread in one of the other forums, that you should read and respond too--or else I'll be placing you on my suspects list

I couldn't possible summarize them here though. Maybe I will after another 2 or 3 pages of uselessness.

Your arguement here goes against the game aspect and into something else. you can play your way - which means I get to play the game my way. If you don't want to read my arguements in the game - simply place me on ignore. Your attempt here is seen for what it is.

[Reenk Roink]

There isn't a Jotun reference in the message.


I won't be bothered with repeating the same things over and over for pages. I've given you my answer choose to believe them or not.

@RR:https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=748

Un, what argument did you make? You made a claim. A claim is different from a argument.

Interesting how your set of PM's are much shorter than mine. It just looks like you cut out the revealing parts...

Ichigo, I make you a deal:

I'll suicide and you'll suicide too.

Can the Jotun afford it? I have no special powers, my benefit to the town is a small one that may not get used. I'm willing to die. Are you? Is one Jotun down too much of a loss?

[Redleg]

I won't be bothered with repeating the same things over and over for pages. I've given you my answer choose to believe them or not.

@RR:https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=748

Oh I don't believe you at all - I am pretty much using the same exact tactic you used on me in a previous game.

[Csargo]

Un, what argument did you make? You made a claim. A claim is different from a argument.

Interesting how your set of PM's are much shorter than mine. It just looks like you cut out the revealing parts...

Ichigo, I make you a deal:

I'll suicide and you'll suicide too.

Can the Jotun afford it?

I have no special powers, my benefit to the town is a small one that may not get used. I'm willing to die. Are you?

I knew you were around somewhere. I've been searching for you.

Ichigo

I quickly replied:

Bring it on sucka...

Of course, Ichigo didn't want to fight, he wanted to kill townies, recruiting me in the process:

I have no beef with you. I knew your role before you even knew it existed .

I'm not after you I just hope you would side with the Jotun. I am Hrungnir, and I know you get to pick sides. You should go ahead and side with us, as your role basically is there to confuse the town anyway.

Trust me, I wouldn't have contacted you if I was trying to kill you.

Ichigo

He sent me another PM.

Here is a townie PM we were able to get. Use it if you get in trouble:

Human

Sigmund “the axe” Germundsson


You are a War Veteran and in the service of the Jarl of Hordaland. You are basically a townie with high Holmgang stats

Ichigo

I became wishy-washy with Csar, and began my second round of posting.

I replied to him:


Quote:
Originally Posted by RR

OK, we're going to do things on my terms if I join you.

Why have you been "looking for me"?

Why did you contact me?

How do you know I'm Æsir?

Answer my questions.

Sorry Reenk, we call the shots here. You are already close to getting lynched.

I've been wondering who the entire game who the God was.

I really have no answer for that.
Sigurd.

Ichigo

It was at this point I got upset, and started to say I expose the Jotun in public.

Now he has pushed it over the top. Pretty telling how Ichigo has been after me for quite awhile now...

Next round Ichigo, it is you who is going down.

Never piss off Loki...

Alright, If I told you at the beginning of our PM discussion then why would you ask question's that you already knew the answers too Reenk? Why would I give you a Townie PM if you revealed that you were a God? Answer these questions.

[Csargo]

Oh I don't believe you at all - I am pretty much using the same exact tactic you used on me in a previous game.

Seems you carry grudges.

[Redleg]

Seems you carry grudges.

Why not, it seems that is the tactic both you and Sasaki are using against Reenk in this game?

If its acceptable for one to do it, its acceptable for all.

[Csargo]

Why not, it seems that is the tactic both you and Sasaki are using against Reenk in this game?

If its acceptable for one to do it, its acceptable for all.

[Reenk Roink]

Alright, If I told you at the beginning of our PM discussion then why would you ask question's that you already knew the answers too Reenk? Why would I give you a Townie PM if you revealed that you were a God? Answer these questions.

Ok Good, some actual questions. Very easy to answer too...

"Alright, If I told you at the beginning of our PM discussion then why would you ask question's that you already knew the answers too Reenk?"

You mean why I asked you things like "why did you contact me?".

Easy. I knew there was someone after me. That's why I replied to you "Bring it on sucka ". I thought you were the rival God. I also knew that a Jotun an Æsir knew who I was. I played along as your claimed Jotun, but you never actually answered me. It wasn't until Seamus Fermanagh confirmed that he was the God that completely ruled that out.

Now for a question by me: Why did you change your vote for me after the bandwagon ended on me?

"Why would I give you a Townie PM if you revealed that you were a God?"

That's your question to answer buddy. I can speculate based on what you said that it was to twist things for the town.

Now, what I want to know is why other people were also suspicious about that "the axe" PM?

[Csargo]

Ok Good, some actual questions. Very easy to answer too...

"Alright, If I told you at the beginning of our PM discussion then why would you ask question's that you already knew the answers too Reenk?"

You mean why I asked you things like "why did you contact me?".

Easy. I knew there was someone after me. That's why I replied to you "Bring it on sucka ". I thought you were the rival God. I also knew that a Jotun an Æsir knew who I was. I played along as your claimed Jotun, but you never actually answered me. It wasn't until Seamus Fermanagh confirmed that he was the God that completely ruled that out.
Now for a question by me: Why did you change your vote for me after the bandwagon ended on me?

"Why would I give you a Townie PM if you revealed that you were a God?"

That's your question to answer buddy. I can speculate based on what you said that it was to twist things for the town.

Now, what I want to know is why other people were also suspicious about that "the axe" PM?

That doesn't answer the question. Your obviously trying to avoid answering the question.

GH was the only one I remember saying anything about the axe Pm and that was after he said that he sent me his PM other than that I can't think of anything one else.