The Midgard Saga [Concluded]

[sapi]

pever's holmgang score seems reasonable if you choose the lowest of his options.

Deleting the pm i regard as suspicious though

[pevergreen]

I had a full box...and now that its gone and Sigurd doesnt have them...ah well.

Try to convince you on my own.

I was here to sort out something between two groups.

I know i was a war veteran, and good at fighting, i presumed scores were out of ten, so i thought mine was pretty high.

I know it had a plus 1 in the equation though. If another lord/king reveals at some time, they can confirm, whether im dead or not.

if this is the right time Challange: Omanes

i didnt do it last time as i thought it was the wrong perioid

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Human Lord


Sulke King of Rogaland


You are the ruler of Rogaland where this session of Gulating is held. You are a War veteran and a former Varangian guard. Trained and schooled in the skills of war makes you a formidable foe in Holmgang.
You are in a blood feud with the neighbour kingdom of Hordaland. It is this feud that will be tried solved in this session of the Ting.

Your survival is important for the town. The Jotun is out to get you and your retinue. The Jotun will win if they kill you and the other Lords.

You don’t have any special abilities other than having a champion that might take your place at a Holmgang. If you are challenged to a Holmgang PM me if you want your champion to take your place. Your champion is: *******

Holmgang ability: *+* = *

Now do you trust me?

[sapi]

When you turn up dead tonight, yes

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

When you turn up dead tonight, yes

Ah yes, now that is the problem. If you say one thing then the Jotun will get you, and if you say another then the town will get you. I would rather be murdered by some evil rampaging giant and go to Valhalla than be killed by a town and go to Hel so....

[Sigurd]

if this is the right time Challange: Omanes

i didnt do it last time as i thought it was the wrong perioid

I am sorry to say that this is not the right time for challenges.
The cycle of this game is:

Kill
Vote
Challenge

This is voting time and will be until 21:00 GMT+1/3:00pm Eastern/07:00am Brisbane...

hmm... I see an unfair advantage for the European and the American players here.
How many of you Australians actually get up at 0700 to read the results of this game?


Sigurd

[Dutch_guy]

Now do you trust me?

It looks real, so I for one believe you.

Now, excuse me while I read up on the rest of the thread...

[HughTower]

I went to Valhalla. I can be trusted.

pevergreen is my King. He is not Jotun.

Husar's comment about Sigurd possibly sending out townie PM's to the Jotun - is there any precedent for this in any other game?

Otherwise, it seems a strange (e.g. suspicious) defence of Ichigo.

[Dutch_guy]

Husar's comment about Sigurd possibly sending out townie PM's to the Jotun - is there any precedent for this in any other game?

As far as I know there isn't. The only thing that comes close to the above mentioned is when there was a mole in the ranks of the masons and the mafia, who knew what they were but were unknown to their allies in the other camp. I can't quite recall the name of that particular game, although I do remember it was hosted by Sasaki..

[HughTower]

As far as I know there isn't. The only thing that comes close to the above mentioned is when there was a mole in the ranks of the masons and the mafia, who knew what they were but were unknown to their allies in the other camp. I can't quite recall the name of that particular game, although I do remember it was hosted by Sasaki..

SO, Husar, why would you not be surprised if Sigurd had done that?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

It does look real, but without the Holmgang value, it isn't as useful as a counter-check to pevergreen's claim.

Obviously, not naming the champion was simply good sense.


Voting records suggest that Sasaki and Ichigo are not operating as a jotun team. Sasaki voted for Ichigo in round two, during a round when a shift of one vote would have killed Ichigo and when voting was so confused that he could easily have moved away to protect Ichigo by reducing vote count without drawing suspicion.

This doesn't clear either as an individual, but strongly suggests that they are not operating as 2/3 of a jotun team.



The Valhalla quotient just snapped into place for me. Notation at death that they arise to Valhalla indicates their status as being some form of warrior and not Jotun (or possibly a thrall who actually beats the odds and wins a holmgang proving he has the heart of a warrior).

Those who do not arise to Valhalla are either God [no need], Jotun [bad] or thrall [no warrior prowess].



Other "gods" possibly present:

Thor [anti-jotun], Odin [king of gods, probably neutral], Balder, Frey, Hodr,
Vanir = Aegir [mostly anti-jotun, not a friend of Thor], Vidar. A number of other less storied are there as well.

Famous Jotun:

Surt, Thiassi, Thokk, Thyrm [special opponent of Thor], Skrymir, Hrungnir [special opponent of Thor], Hugi, Angbroda


Heimdall v. Loki was only one of the famous rivalries of the Norse gods.

From this, I hypothesize the existence of at least one more god among us -- possibly with an opposing god or special role jotun (started unknown to other jotun as well).



My vote, at least for now is Vote: pevergreen

I mislike the quality of his reveal. Omanes is suspect, but the PM is important and the lack thereof somewhat surprising -- particularly in light of your experience in Capo, pev'.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Jesus, this is going badly. Unvote,Vote:sapi

/doesn't beleive people are still voting Ichigo.

[Andres]

@Sasaki: This is my reason:

I am convinced by the evidence provided by Loki. I say we lynch Ichigo. If he isn't Jotun, I suggest all players put Loki on their ignore list for the rest of the game. If Ichigo is Jotun, Sasaki becomes very suspicious. Voting me for "bandwagoning" while I gave my reasons + there are some elements against Ichigo is ridiculous and not Sasaki-style, unless he's not playing pro-town in this game that is. The Ichigo-case isn't clear, there's still alot of doubt. Both Reenk and Ichigo are capable of convincingly fabricating PM's. Doubt = there is real chance he is Jotun + I still think Ichigo is suspicious since he ridiculised my argument about the invisible mode instead of trying to give substantial prove of my mistake.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

He can't have fabricated the role pm. There is a real chance that everyone is a Jotun. So all we get from Reenks accusation is that Reenk is lying and wants Ichigo lynched. I think if you examine the case there is not much to doubt:


1) Ichigo fabricated the pm with axeman 100% accuracy
2) Ichigo trusted Reenk enough to give him pm evidence of his guilt
3) Ichigo then refused to answer a couple simple questions, even though he wanted Reenk to work for him and Reenk could argue convincingly for Ichigo's lynch
4) This "angered" Reenk enough to post the whole exchange
5) That the god of chaos isn't trying to spread chaos, he's just acting like a townie

[Proletariat]

Wow, hard to keep up with. I'm catching up here, will get my vote in soon.

[Andres]

1) Ichigo fabricated the pm with axeman 100% accuracy
2) Ichigo trusted Reenk enough to give him pm evidence of his guilt
3) Ichigo then refused to answer a couple simple questions, even though he wanted Reenk to work for him and Reenk could argue convincingly for Ichigo's lynch
4) This "angered" Reenk enough to post the whole exchange
5) That the god of chaos isn't trying to spread chaos, he's just acting like a townie

1) a) How can you know for 100 % that it was 100 % accurate? b) He might have gotten it from somebody else who is death know and cannot post it in here to prove it came from him. Maybe Ichigo managed to get someones role pm and killed him immediately afterwards. Or maybe he got it from a lurker.
2) Well, maybe Reenk told the truth and Ichigo wanted him to join "the Dark Side"
3) in the line of 2), it depends on which side you think was the most convincing.
4) yup. And afterwards Ichigo posted his version. They are both capable of fabricating pm's and pulling of a stunt.
5) He choose to play pro-town, that's why he acts townie.

I agree that we cannot be 100 % sure that Ichigo is Jotun, but there is alot of doubt. Both Reenk and Ichigo are suspicious. One of them is death (Reenk), let's lynch Ichigo. If he goes to Valhalla, I made a mistake and you can call me "a moron" if that mistake turns out to be decisive at the end of the game

In other games, you plead to lynch people for much less. If Ichigo turns out to be Jotun, you'll have alot to explain Sasaki. Why are you defeniding Ichigo that hard? It's very uncommon for you.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

It's not uncommon for me to defend someone. It's clear that Ichi is innocent. There are lot's of other suspicious people. The current lynch effort against him is shows a dangerous problem the town has--any large argument that is repeated often enough will result in a call for "lynch them both". This is sheer laziness. If we allow this then every Jotun we try and lynch will pull the same stunt and the town will lose. Why not have pevergreen go against ichigo in the holmgang? This will show whether one is lying or not, and doesn't waste a lynch. sapi is the way to go

[Redleg]

As a result of me deleting my inbox, I now have no role PM!

I doubt sigurd would give me another one. So I'll claim as best I can without one.

I am a Human Lord. Hughtower was my champion.

My Duel score is 8

I am a battle trained lord as well.

Bah on me deleting my PM's.

Your lieing pevergreen - since I declared my role earlier I can state that without violating the rules. Edit: To reference the post in the thread for my reveal

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=500

War vetern lord was a holmgang of 5. Which was my initial score. Coupled with the fact that you denied my reveal as a lord, tsk tsk - you have made a slip. SInce I posted part of my PM in the thread - its really a rather weak attempt on you part.



Now if your claiming to be a king - then your score would be higher I am thinking. But this attempt here is an obvious lie.

Since I declared my role earlier and if it doesn't violate the rules I will post my PM if Sigurd states that it okay.

[Andres]

Let pevergreen and Omanes challenge each other.

As for Ichigo, I think we disagree then. To me it is not clear he is innocent. Reenk didn't lie about everything. Both Reenk and Ichigo are capable of faking pm's. It is not lazyness, it is a calculated risk to lynch Ichigo. End of discussion as far as I'm concerned.

If you don't want to go for Ichigo, Lord Motep seems a better choice: 1) powerful character (look at the write-up of his duel with Orb) 2) not much contributing, i.e. lurking and 3) never gave a reason for voting Orb.

And don't forget about Tom_Hagen. He got attacked, but not killed. Maybe he intended to join the Jotun and asked them to attack him on night one. He and his Jotun friend were sure he wouldn't die, thus Tom would be above all suspicion. The day after, Tom confirms Sigurd that he will join the Jotun...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Your lieing pevergreen - since I declared my role earlier I can state that without violating the rules.

War vetern lord was a holmgang of 5. Which was my initial score. Coupled with the fact that you denied my reveal as a lord, tsk tsk - you have made a slip.

Now if your claiming to be a king - then your score would be higher I am thinking. But this attempt here is an obvious lie.

Since I declared my role earlier and if it doesn't violate the rules I will post my PM if Sigurd states that it okay.

Excellent Unvote,Vote:pevergreen

I am rather surprised that he would risk such a claim. But then Omanes didn't contradict him when he claimed for some reason.

@Andres: tom is innocent and not a god. He received protection that night, I've received similar myself.

[Stig]

And don't forget about Tom_Hagen. He got attacked, but not killed.

Sasaki is right, Tom is plain innocent, look at the write-ups

[Sasaki Kojiro]

hmm unvote I forgot about Hugh. Does going to valhalla guarantee innocence?

[ByzantineKnight]

hmm unvote I forgot about Hugh. Does going to valhalla guarantee innocence?

Ya, do you think theyd let Jotun in?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Hrungnir was a giant in Norse mythology, slain by the god Thor with his hammer Mjollnir. The account is documented in the Skáldskaparmál, in the Younger Edda by Snorri Sturluson.

Prior to his demise, Hrungnir engaged in a wager with Odin in which Odin staked his head betting on his horse, Sleipnir being faster than the steed of the giant's Gullfaxi. After the race, which Sleipnir won, he was invited into Valhalla, but became drunk and abusive. The gods called on Thor to battle with Hrungnir, and defeated him.

Vote:pevergreen

Although it may be best to test his power in the holmgang.

[Andres]

Although it may be best to test his power in the holmgang.

That's why I want him to fight Omanes in the holmgang.

So please, let pevergreen vs Omanes be the only challenge.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Hmm

Redleg says his score was 5. He was equal with HughTower. If pever is jotun than hugh is jotun. So why would pever claim 8? Maybe he thought Redleg had higher than hugh?

Omanes, what was your score?

And pever which lord are you? You conveniently made it harder for someone to counterclaim you.

[Husar]

I went to Valhalla. I can be trusted.

pevergreen is my King. He is not Jotun.

Husar's comment about Sigurd possibly sending out townie PM's to the Jotun - is there any precedent for this in any other game?

Otherwise, it seems a strange (e.g. suspicious) defence of Ichigo.

I wasn't defending Ichigo, I was saying his townie PM may not be the one that indicates his role and he may have gotten it from someone else, actually that is what I believe, whether it was from Sigurd or not.

SO, Husar, why would you not be surprised if Sigurd had done that?

Because Sigurd likes that kind of secret tactic and stuff, it was just a guess anayway because I do not believe Ichigo.

It's clear that Ichi is innocent.

No, it's definitely not clear, he claims this and that, even challenges people(as a townie?).

Your lieing pevergreen - since I declared my role earlier I can state that without violating the rules. Edit: To reference the post in the thread for my reveal

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=500

War vetern lord was a holmgang of 5. Which was my initial score. Coupled with the fact that you denied my reveal as a lord, tsk tsk - you have made a slip. SInce I posted part of my PM in the thread - its really a rather weak attempt on you part.



Now if your claiming to be a king - then your score would be higher I am thinking. But this attempt here is an obvious lie.

Since I declared my role earlier and if it doesn't violate the rules I will post my PM if Sigurd states that it okay.

That is very interesting indeed. I will keep it in mind but for now, I will

Vote: Ichigo

[Crazed Rabbit]

I have good reason to believe Hughtower is innocent, which would make pevergreen innocent. Personally, I don't see what the slip up Redleg supposedly caught was.

Yes, Redleg had 5, but Redleg's role is not Pevergreen's role - Redleg is not a king, he is a mere lord, so his assumption that Pevergreen is lying because of his higher holmgang really has no basis. Especially when you consider that noone knows all the roles, or even the individual quirks of apparently similar roles.

Oh, and having Pevergreen fight Omanes is horrifically stupid. If we think they're both kings, than that is exactly what the jotun want - for the kings to die!

CR

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Yeah that makes sense. Omanes can confirm pevergreen.

unvote,Vote:sapi

[Redleg]

I have good reason to believe Hughtower is innocent, which would make pevergreen innocent. Personally, I don't see what the slip up Redleg supposedly caught was.

Yes, Redleg had 5, but Redleg's role is not Pevergreen's role - Redleg is not a king, he is a mere lord, so his assumption that Pevergreen is lying because of his higher holmgang really has no basis. Especially when you consider that noone knows all the roles, or even the individual quirks of apparently similar roles.

Oh, and having Pevergreen fight Omanes is horrifically stupid. If we think they're both kings, than that is exactly what the jotun want - for the kings to die!

CR

If you read carefully and fully - you will discover that pevergreen claims to be a human lord, not a king. Here is his exact claim "I am a Human Lord. Hughtower was my champion"

Now Hughtower did go to Vahalla - and claims pevergreen was his king. If Hughtower is correct and pevergreen is his king - then why did pevergreen lie about being only a lord? If Hughtower is incorrect and called pevergreen his king versus his Jarl, why did pevergreen lie about his holmgang rating?

Anyway you attempt to slice it pevergreen is caught in a lie - its just a matter of determining if he is a King or a jotun.

Whats funny is that pevergreen attempted to deny my reveal as a jarl by wanting Loki to smit me.

Either way the conclusion is that pevergreen has not shown that his interest lies with protecting the gathering from the jotun