What are the Trait/Ancilliary/Guild Bugs?

[Carl]

I've tried asking this in my ProblemFixer thread but not got many replies.

For the purposes of expanding my Problem Fixer I want to try and fix as many of the Trait/Ancillary/Guild Bugs as I can. Unfortunately I don't have a complete list of all these Bugs and I could do with a bit of Help Compiling them.

Their are 3 Types of things I want you to give me, please label them accordingly:

1. Simple obvious stuff not working as intended, e.g. Bishops and Huge_Cathedrals, Explorers Guilds not giving extra Movement, the BadTaxman for Generals in Castles e.t.c.

2. Traits missing Triggers, e.g. the Starting Piety Bug, the Starting Princess Bug, and many of the princess traits lacking triggers. I'd also like a list f Traits that can only be acquired from the individuals father/Random chance upon Coming of Age/through adopted generals, e.t.c.

3. Stuff that is Bugging you, (), e.g. Pagan Magician and Secret Lover being too common or the traits relating to corruption and negative traits for generals left in cities, e.t.c.


I need them separating properly for a simple reason:

Stuff in section 1 will almost certainly be fixed if I can do it, simply because they are genuine bugs.

Most of the stuff in section 2 will likely be changed, but not all, it's a Little subjective here as some won't necessarily be bugs, and will thus require judgment on which is which, unfortunately thats subjective.

Stuff in section 3 will only be changed if a very large number of people ask for it as it's highly subjective stuff, nonetheless one of the motto's of my ProblemFixer is "Give the People What They Want" so if I get a lot of requests for something it will make it into it. Thats how the Pike Fix got in, it's debatable weather Pikes where meant to be so powerful by CA, but everyone seems to feel they needed fixing so it got in anyway.

Many thanks for the help as much of this is hard to spot on you own.

[HoreTore]

1. There is no way for the Russians to get a Swordsmiths Guild. There is no unit collecting points for it at all. Perhaps letting the dismounted Dvors collecting points, they do use a sword in addition to their bow. Also applies to the turks, with only the hashashim collecting points, who are only available with cities, which cannot be converted to castles because of the minimum stone wall level. Perhaps Ottoman Infantry is a suitable unit for them?

Oh, and the thieves guild things in my thread...

[Carl]

Thanks for those.

I knew their where a few other guild Related things going on that where really silly.

[HoreTore]

I think that the rare or never seen guilds could do with a trigger boost actually.

Specifically, this is:
- Horse breeder
- Swordsmith for some factions(I think there are a few besides turks and russians)
- Masons

Altough it might be intended that the way to get the masons is through converting a citadel, which seems the only viable way now, and to be honest, that's where you need them most.

Oh, and I've got a trait!

1. level: StrategyChivalry trigger for joining and ending a crusade is missing for jihads. Seems unintended that only christians get chivalry for holy wars.

I've just started a new campaign as the Moors, and I'll keep an eye out for weird stuff in the traits and elsewhere, and report back what I can find. However, I'm using the CherryVanilla traitfix plus my own hotfixes, so it wont be as much as a vanilla version...

[Foz]

1. Check out all the agent init triggers, especially the ones for granting traits from guilds. I think only one of the guild sets actually correctly grants GuildTrained and GuildMember for the right buildings. Some use FactionBuildingExists where it should be SettlementBuildingExists, some had incorrect use of > or = where a different one belongs... it's a ridiculous mess. I think this is the one that was completely correct from the start:

;------------------------------------------
Trigger assassininit4
    WhenToTest AgentCreated

    Condition AgentType = assassin
          and SettlementBuildingExists >= assassins_guild

    Affects AssassinsGuildTrained  1  Chance  100 

;------------------------------------------
Trigger assassininit5
    WhenToTest AgentCreated

    Condition AgentType = assassin
          and FactionBuildingExists >= m_assassins_guild

    Affects AssassinsGuildMember  1  Chance  100 

;------------------------------------------
Trigger assassininit6
    WhenToTest AgentCreated

    Condition AgentType = assassin
          and FactionBuildingExists = gm_assassins_guild

    Affects AssassinsGuildMember  1  Chance  100

Note how the levels are SettlementBuildingExists, FactionBuildingExists, FactionBuildingExists. The first 2 get >=, the 3rd gets =. And then of course the first affects GuildTrained and the next two both affect GuildMember. IIRC at least one other agent init guild trigger set messes up each of those things.

Also I recall there is something wrong with the trigger that sets up WifeIsFertile - it only applies to admirals IIRC, when it should be "family."

While I'm thinking about it, check all traits that say they only apply to "Characters general." From what I've been told, "general" used here refers only to captains who are in command currently (I know, how counterintuitive), and not to characters who are generals in your army (those guys with bodyguards who can govern). Most of the times when the file sets a trait to apply to general only, you will have to change it to "family" to make it function correctly, as family seems to include any general-type character who is on your family tree. This is one of the reasons ReligionStarter doesn't work right - it is set so only captains can have it via "Characters general."

That's all I can remember at the moment.

[Carl]

Thanks Foz, i thought some looked a bit weird with the Guilds TBH. And At a geuss i'm gonna have to add a set of hidden traits to get Explorers working as I can't seem to find anything anywhere that gives the supposed movment bounses, you know of anything Foz...

p.s. If i'm reading that Assasins one correctlly theirs no diffrance between the Master and HQ guilds, is that right...

[Foz]

Thanks Foz, i thought some looked a bit weird with the Guilds TBH. And At a geuss i'm gonna have to add a set of hidden traits to get Explorers working as I can't seem to find anything anywhere that gives the supposed movment bounses, you know of anything Foz...

p.s. If i'm reading that Assasins one correctlly theirs no diffrance between the Master and HQ guilds, is that right...

They're almost identical, yeah - just the first uses >= and the m_ guild, while second uses = and the gm_ guild. Since it's two different triggers, a gm_assassins_guild anywhere in your empire causes the first AND the second to trigger, so the character will get TWO points in the GuildMember trait, which makes it level 2 for 2 bonus points of agent skill. Hope that covers what you were asking.

For Explorer's Guild, the movement points come from an ancillary that the guild has a chance each turn to grant to any general there (the ancillary grants 15% extra movement points). I'm not sure if that's the guild's only intended function or not, but the anicillary does work at the moment.

[Carl]

For Explorer's Guild, the movement points come from an ancillary that the guild has a chance each turn to grant to any general there (the ancillary grants 15% extra movement points). I'm not sure if that's the guild's only intended function or not, but the anicillary does work at the moment.

I've never had it Foz, but accordding to those that have, the description says it gives a movment bounus to EVRYONE in your empire. I can't see anything that does that, just the one ancillary you mentioned.

[HoreTore]

For Explorer's Guild, the movement points come from an ancillary that the guild has a chance each turn to grant to any general there (the ancillary grants 15% extra movement points). I'm not sure if that's the guild's only intended function or not, but the anicillary does work at the moment.

You'll also get Marco Polo at one stage in the game, and another explorer, can't remember which...Vasco Da Gama perhaps?

[HoreTore]

Not related to traits, however, but take a look at https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=78711

Sure hope there's a way of fixing it... If I ever continue a campaign long enough to get to the new world, I'd hate not being able to ship stuff back home...

[HoreTore]

another one:

1. Look at the pet_bloodhound entry in the ancillary file. The ancillary entry is fine, but the trigger is botched, it's the same as the overseer entry above, and produces an overseer...

No idea what should trigger a bloodhound, or if it's for an assassin or spy...would have to make up something, I guess... Maybe trigger it from a high market, like the pet monkey? Or a castle, like the guard dog, making it only for the poles and danes?

[TevashSzat]

Another thing you outa fix is the extravagent traits as well as a few others granted by the brothels, inns, ect... Those bad traits have an incredibly high chance of popping up which effectively destroys any general that you have kept in a city for more than 10 turns. Now, i am forced to send new family members to the death because they keep on aquiring so many bad traits. One managed to get a combined total of -50% tax income which was pretty sad since the guy was only 26

[HoreTore]

@Xdeathfire
The solution is simple - don't build brothels! only build them in the province you intend to actively produce spies/assassin, preferably a small one who doesn't need a governor. As to corruption, I can't really see how people manage to get those large treasuries....I've only had it twice, once as the Turks in the final stages and I was sacking the world, and once as the Milanese, but they get rich anyway as they only need a minimum of castles...

And i've got another trait!

Level 3 this time:
The Great commander and Legendary commander traits realy ought to give an authority boost. It's common sense really, just look at all the kings who were real generals... Alexander, Saladin, Gengis...they all held absolute authority. Great commander should IMO give +1, and legendary +2. It also encourages people to conquer with their kings.

[Foz]

Level 3 this time:
The Great commander and Legendary commander traits realy ought to give an authority boost. It's common sense really, just look at all the kings who were real generals... Alexander, Saladin, Gengis...they all held absolute authority. Great commander should IMO give +1, and legendary +2. It also encourages people to conquer with their kings.

Accroding to Machiavelli, it is the prince who should do the conquering and be wholly devoted to war

A prince ought to have no other aim or thought, nor select anything else for his study, than war and its rules and discipline; for this is the sole art that belongs to him who rules, and it is of such force that it not only upholds those who are born princes, but it often enables men to rise from a private station to that rank.

He's really talking about rulers (and would-be rulers) in general trying to grab and hold power, and I do totally agree with you on this one: great commanders, especially in these times of so much tumult, commanded great authority as well. Military might and success was one of the very few ways to rally people behind you in these times, and the game ought to reflect that.

As for conquering with your kings... bah. Conquer with the heir to the throne (so he's jacked up as soon as he gets the throne), and let the king live out the rest of his days in peace. Besides, if he got jacked up when he was a prince, then you should have a very lucrative city for him to govern with his awesome stats!

[Carl]

Here's a littile list of stuff that popped up whilst parsing the various Princess traits, it's pretty sad reading TBH. Especcially since it's pretty hard to get most of the good ones on dads for their daughters to inherit from.

PretentiousWoman ; IH

HumbleWoman ; IH

PrettyWoman ; IH

UglyWoman ; IH

BraveWoman ; IH

TimidWoman ; IH

DesperateWoman ; Important, no triggers exist for this trait at all, possibbly Inheritance with Perverted/Girls Dads and of Course Failed Marrige attempts

SpiritedWoman ; IH

FaithfulWoman ; IH

UnchasteWoman ; IH

VapidWoman ; The following trigger is wrong (Trigger princess_dad_was_intelligent2), last effect should Read VapidWoman rather than EducatedWoman

EducatedWoman ; The following trigger is wrong (Trigger princess_dad_was_intelligent2), last effect should Read EducatedWoman rather than VapidWoman

PassionateWoman ; Important, no triggers exist for this trait at all

ColdWoman ; IH

BigotWoman ; IH, also possibly inheritance triggers for dads who are harsh/unjust e.t.c.

TolerantWoman ; IH, also possibly inheritance trigers for dads who are kind/just e.t.c.

DykeWoman ; Important, no triggers exist for this trait at all

FertileWoman ; IH, also, the triggers make it impossibbile for level 3 of this to be achived as they do not give enough chances

InfertileWoman  IH, also, the triggers make it impossibbile for level 3 of this to be achived as they do not give enough chances

FairWoman ; IH, also, should perhaps have inheritance trigger similar to TolerantWoman

HarshWoman ; IH, also, should perhaps have inheritance trigger similar to BigotWoman

GoodPrincess ; MO

BadPrincess ; MO

NaturalPrincess ; Important, no triggers exist for this trait at

Whats the Code?

IH= Inheritance Only

MO=Mission Only


Random Question: Does the Diplomacy Mission refer to Actual missions give by the council/pope, (i.e. the make contact missions), or to any diplomatic attempt at anything?

I'll go through the Merchants next...

[HoreTore]

Random Question: Does the Diplomacy Mission refer to Actual missions give by the council/pope, (i.e. the make contact missions), or to any diplomatic attempt at anything?

"Mission" in the traits and ancillary file refers to random attempts at something. When it's a mission på guilds/nobles/pope, it has a "and Payback_ID Pope/guild" line. Check for example the trait "pope's enforcer".

This goes for all mission, diplomatic, spying, assassination, denouncing and aquisition.

[Carl]

Thanks, I thought it was like that but I wanted to double check.

[Carl]

Furthar Parsing has turned up the following:

 ; Key
 ; RB=Random Birth/Comes of Age but not Inheritance related/When the Character Is Adopted into the family
 ; SP=Self-Perpetuating
 ; IH-Inheritance
 ; MO-Non-Pope/Council/Guild Mission
 ; Riots=When the citzens Riot/Rebel
 ; ADP=A character can get this when his father Adopts somone
 ; CO=Corruption
 ; N/A=No Worries, Plenty of Triggers e.t.c
 ; N/A-(rl)= Same as N/A but a not to myself to re-look at it later and reasses furthar then
 ; B=Battle



PretentiousWoman ; IH

HumbleWoman ; IH

PrettyWoman ; IH

UglyWoman ; IH

BraveWoman ; IH

TimidWoman ; IH

DesperateWoman ; Important, no triggers exist for this trait at all, possibbly Inheritance with Perverted/Girls Dads and of Course Failed Marrige attempts

SpiritedWoman ; IH

FaithfulWoman ; IH

UnchasteWoman ; IH

VapidWoman ; The following trigger is wrong (Trigger princess_dad_was_intelligent2), last effect should Read VapidWoman rather than EducatedWoman

EducatedWoman ; The following trigger is wrong (Trigger princess_dad_was_intelligent2), last effect should Read EducatedWoman rather than VapidWoman

PassionateWoman ; Important, no triggers exist for this trait at all

ColdWoman ; IH

BigotWoman ; IH, also possibly inheritance triggers for dads who are harsh/unjust e.t.c

TolerantWoman ; IH, also possibly inheritance trigers for dads who are kind/just e.t.c

DykeWoman ; Important, no triggers exist for this trait at all

FertileWoman ; IH, also, the triggers make it impossibbile for level 3 of this to be achived as they do not give enough chances

InfertileWoman  IH, also, the triggers make it impossibbile for level 3 of this to be achived as they do not give enough chances

FairWoman ; IH, also, should perhaps have inheritance trigger similar to TolerantWoman

HarshWoman ; IH, also, should perhaps have inheritance trigger similar to BigotWoman

GoodPrincess ; MO

BadPrincess ; MO

NaturalPrincess ; Important, no triggers exist for this trait at all

GoodSpy ; MO

BadSpy ; MO

GoodAssassin ; MO

BadAssassin ; MO

LaxPersonalSecurity ; Can only be got through the trusting trait and self perpetuating triggers

HighPersonalSecurity ; Got only When character suffers attempted Assasination only

Trusting ; RB

Paranoia ; N/A

GoodDiplomat: MO

BadDiplomat ; MO

Liar ; RB, SP

Embezzler ; RB, CO

DeceiverVirtue ; N/A-(rl)

Upright ; IH, RB, CO, Also, sucsesful Bribe Resistance

Corrupt ; N/A

Authoritarian ; N/A-(rl)

NonAuthoritarian ; IH, SP

Disloyal ; N/A-(rl)

Loyal ; RB, should possiblly include a trigger for resisting a bribe for this

SmoothTalker ; MO, also non-diplomats seem to be able to get it through RB and IH it is only of use to Diplomats though so this is clearly errenous and it was perhaps intended Diplomats randomly start with this

Cuckold ; Few trigggers but i'm unsure what this represents so I don't know if thats a problem, it seems to be wife related and gotten through a bad wife or staying away from home a lot

GoodFarmer ; RB, Also when farm is built, thresholds are also too high, no IH trigger

GoodMiner ; RB, Also when mine is built, thresholds are also too high, no IH trigger

GoodEngineer ; RB

BadEngineer ; RB

GoodTrader ; RB, CO, Also when trade buildings are completed, thresholds too high

BadTrader ; RB

Just ; RB, Riots, No IH

Unjust ; RB, ADP , Riots, No IH Trigger

HarshJustice ; RB, Riots

LenientJustice ; RB

HarshRuler ; RB, SP, Riots, ADP

KindRuler ; IH SP, Strangly it's impossibbile to get this trait if your family dosen't start with it or if that mebmber of family has no sons

GoodBuilder ; N/A, the Trigger (Trigger governing3) includes this as an effect but appears to lack a condition, may or ma not be an error

BadBuilder ; RB

Generous ; RB, IH, SP

Miserly ; IH, SP, When haracter is in settelment that is under seige

Noctophobia ; B, No IH

Noctophilia ; B, No IH

Perverted ; IH, SP, Strangly it's impossibbile to get this trait if your family dosen't start with it or if that mebmber of family has no sons

Scout ; Only got through sitting in a Settelment with 100% movment left and only 1/600th the time, Mongals can get it via RB with a 1/25 chance

Sailor ; B

Landlubber ; B

BattleScarred ; RB, B, the B Trigger seems to be repeated

GoodConspirator ; N/A, Except that like SmoothTalker your characters can get it, it is only of use to spies/assasins though so clearly an error

BadConspirator ; MO, dopes not occour when a spy mision is failed, probably because a bad failure is a dead spy

Talkative ; RB, SP also upon Dimplomat Creation, Another one that has no effect on characters and should not be in the list of stuff avalibile to them, also not possibble for diplomats to get better than 1 level in this as they are an agent not character and are thus unaffected by the SP trigger

Secretive ; RB, SP also upon Dimplomat Creation, Another one that has no effect on characters and should not be in the list of stuff avalibile to them, also not possibble for diplomats to get better than 1 level in this as they are an agent not character and are thus unaffected by the SP trigger

GoodInfantryGeneral ; B, RB

BadInfantryGeneral ; B, RB

 ; Skipped Hate/Loathes and Good/Bad cav generals till later

Inbred ; RB, IH, Very Hard to keep as it detirates over the generations

Handsome ; RB, IH

Ugly ; RB, IH

Fertile ; RB, IH

Infertile ; RB, IH

It's not anywhere near complete, but i'm beggining to REALLY worry as far too many traits are impossibbile to aquire without Random Births and even Inheritance dosen't tend to make them stick around a lot. As a result 90% the traits are inredibbly rare.

[Lusted]

Carl, have you looked at this mod at TWc?

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=74566

It seems to fix most of the trait/ancilliary bugs and i use it in LTC.

[Carl]

Thanks for the Link, it sounds good, could you tell me how to get in touch and ask him if I can use it in my ProblemFixer? (Bear In mind i don't have an account on that forum so i can't use PM)...

I'll still be doing research on them of the nature i've been doing above though as it wil help me create my own customised version if I get permishion.

[Lusted]

Well check and see what he says in the thread::

PLEASE FEEL FREE TO DISTRIBUTE OR USE IN YOUR OWN MODS, as long as you acknowledge source and link to thread where I can get feedback. Enjoy!

[Carl]

, sorry , missed that in the exitment...

Thnx for that lusted, will probably have V1.13 of the ProblemFixer out in a few hours.

[HoreTore]

A couple more points on the guilds:

What we know from experience suggest that there might be a predifened order in which guilds are offered when you have multiple ones with enough points. If it exists, and we can find it, turning the list upside down will probably produce more variation.

Masons guild is rather difficult to get, maybe upping the value for each of the mason settlement triggers by 5 or so should help? It still means that you'll have to work on one province to get it, but it makes possible to get it without having to convert at least a fortress with all buildings built.

[Carl]

Thanks, Guild fixes will make it into V1.14 of my ProblemFixer, V1.13 is now up and includes Trait and Ancillary fixes by Orientis.