what... a draw?

**pat the magnificent** · 02-03-2007, 07:19

ok, HE sallied out against ME. I was DEFENDING. It was HIS responsibility to kill ME. not the other way around. So... WTH. how so is this a draw. how am i not the clear winner?

i dunno, i just don't get it. i mean, i still got the settlement, but my general was denied any new traits despite his unit killing tons of dudes.

its just a big ol' load of bull-honkey

**Darkarbiter** · 02-03-2007, 07:23

Its a draw because no one was wiped out.

Does wording really matter?

**Orda Khan** · 02-03-2007, 11:29

I think it's the unfairness of it that's the complaint. I had a 10 star General with a seasoned army laying siege to Magdeburg, the last Polish region. They sallied and I destroyed them.......BUT...
About 24 men routed back inside and plain refused to come out, leaving me no option but to escape the battle and suffer a loss. Does the same apply to the player? Not on your life. It is annoying but it's not the end of the World

......Orda

**sapi** · 02-03-2007, 11:32

If they get back inside the gates they can call the sally off, as can you (hence the draw)

It shouldn't happen if you're inside the settlement though

**JCoyote** · 02-03-2007, 14:53

If they sally and you don't want a draw, you need to breach the settlement. If you just let them come to you and do nothing but kill their soldiers, it will always be a draw.

**HoreTore** · 02-03-2007, 19:07

No idea how this works, but anyway:

I had that happen to me one time, when I was taking a rebel settlement(wooden palisade) with only cavalry. They sallied on the last turn, and I routed 10 or so back behind their walls. By coincidence, I ran my calry up to their intact and closed gate, and some way I got the "building captured" message. The enemy was in their city centre, and I had about 40 cavalry at the gates.

Perhaps there is some feature that says that when the enemy routs back to the centre when they're sallying, you can capture the gates from the outside?

**Thorn Is** · 02-03-2007, 19:28

yah that one little bastard that got away prevented it from being a victory

**Orda Khan** · 02-03-2007, 23:03

Yes it is always a draw, yet sometimes you gain the settlement anyway. My major concern with this is what's changed?
Let's say they have supplies for 10 years and they sally then or die. They fight a battle, retreat back inside (where there are now no supplies) and can now sit tight for another 10 years.
As I already said, it's no big deal.
The siege part of the game is wasted on me because unit pathfinding around models has always been a problem which is why I rarely bother with sieges

......Orda

**sapi** · 02-04-2007, 02:15

@orda

If they sally on the last turn and achieve a loss or a draw you gain the settlement; you are only pushed back if they win.

It is a bit stupid how they can magically get full supplies again next turn though.

**Orda Khan** · 02-04-2007, 11:23

Originally Posted by sapi

@orda

If they sally on the last turn and achieve a loss or a draw you gain the settlement; you are only pushed back if they win.

It is a bit stupid how they can magically get full supplies again next turn though.

Which is why I was like this guy...

when it happened, heh. It was 1 turn until surrender and I could swear they sallied after end turn. Perhaps they managed to lift a few sacks of grain and a side of pork from our camp

......Orda

**Quillan** · 02-05-2007, 17:27

When the defender sallies against a siege, if the battle ends with the defending troops all inside the city, the attacker all outside the city and walls/gates closed, the battle is a draw. It doesn't matter how many troops were lost or left on either side, it's a draw. After the draw, it's possible one army might disband because of super low numbers of remaining troops, and if that happens to the defender, then the attacker will take possession of the settlement.

Unlike RTW, you can't pursue routing units through the gates of the settlement to gain a quick and easy form of access; the gates will slam closed as you approach. However, it's still important to pursue routers aggressively in that situation just for that reason. The gates will close locking the routers out, and you'll be able to destroy them in detail. If you'd had artillery with you, you could have knocked open the gates with it and won that way. For some reason, sallies don't seem to put the constructed siege equipment on the battlefield. In RTW, if the defender sallied against you, you'd wind up on the battle with units already manning the rams/ladders/towers, and be forced to drop them and quickly set up a defense as the enemy came boiling out of the gates. In this you don't, so you don't even have the possibility of forcing the walls during a sally unless you dragged artillery along with you.

**diotavelli** · 02-05-2007, 17:40

Originally Posted by Quillan

In RTW, if the defender sallied against you, you'd wind up on the battle with units already manning the rams/ladders/towers, and be forced to drop them and quickly set up a defense as the enemy came boiling out of the gates. In this you don't, so you don't even have the possibility of forcing the walls during a sally unless you dragged artillery along with you.

I fought two battles only last night where garrisons sallied against me with one turn left for the siege (Dublin and Bruges). In both cases, my army had their siege equipment with them, which I had to drop in order not to leave sitting ducks for the enemy attackers. These weren't the first occasions that's happened, either - it's my normal experience of sieges in M2TW.

Don't know why this should be so different from Quillan's experience. Are you running any fixes, mods or patches? I'm not, so that might explain it?

**sapi** · 02-06-2007, 09:05

Originally Posted by Quillan

When the defender sallies against a siege, if the battle ends with the defending troops all inside the city, the attacker all outside the city and walls/gates closed, the battle is a draw. It doesn't matter how many troops were lost or left on either side, it's a draw. After the draw, it's possible one army might disband because of super low numbers of remaining troops, and if that happens to the defender, then the attacker will take possession of the settlement.

Actually, i seem to find that in the latter case the settlement will usually go rebel

Unlike RTW, you can't pursue routing units through the gates of the settlement to gain a quick and easy form of access; the gates will slam closed as you approach.

I've never noticed that - run your men through theirs and you'll still be able to get in

For some reason, sallies don't seem to put the constructed siege equipment on the battlefield. In RTW, if the defender sallied against you, you'd wind up on the battle with units already manning the rams/ladders/towers, and be forced to drop them and quickly set up a defense as the enemy came boiling out of the gates. In this you don't, so you don't even have the possibility of forcing the walls during a sally unless you dragged artillery along with you.

Yes they do

Equipment is put on the battlefield and manned, just like in rtw

**pevergreen** · 02-06-2007, 09:07

Which can create some problems in the attackers set up.

Would be good if melee could destroy siege engines.

Sally out to destroy siege engines while reinforcements come.

Very realistic