city maximum effects? (squalor, law, et al)

[lottrbacchus]

hello- i've been looking around quite a bit, and there is a ton of information here, but i haven't found a compiled list of city effects max levels (or whatever you might call it). squalor, distance from capital penalty, corruption, law, population explosion bonus to happiness- i know that some of these have a cap but i'm not sure about all of them.

the happiness benefit from a governor's influence must be, what, +50 (10 is max influence, and is it 5% per laurel)?

so what i'd like to see, or at least have your help so i can make it, is first, a list of all bonuses and penalties for all 3 parts of the city report screen.

and second, what the maximum levels are for these. it is possible that there is a maximum limit from one source (as in the above-mentioned example of governor's influence), so it would be nice to know if some bonuses/penalties have multiple possible sources, what the individual caps are, and what the total cap is.

well, i have to run off to a meeting now (curse the real world!!!) but i hope a few of you are interested in this project too. ciao

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Hi,
I'm not really sure if I can really make myself useful in this, yet some of this basic information that you probably know may help you a little:

• The larger the city the higher the squalor.
• The law effect has an effect on corruption - the higher the amount of law the lower the amount of corruption.
• The further you are away from your capital the higher the amount of corruption. Either the law bonus is lower or the distance to capital effect effect corruption

I hope this helps you. I will be happy to help you with some more information later after I have done a little bit of research. I wish you the best of luck with your project and cheers!

[lottrbacchus]

this is in the right direction, but i want to know what the limits are. squalor max is said to be 125. is there a max for law? probably, i am going to have to plug in a bunch of changes myself and see what happens, i was just hoping someone would already have this information memorized and type it all out here in an easy to read format, lol.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Some things I just discovered:

• Farming base rate (cannot change)
• Farm upgrades - 0.5% per upgrade bonus to population growth.
• Building Bonuses - do exactly why is said on the building description scroll.
• Squalor runs at a ratio of 1% penalty to population growth per 3375 people and a 10% percent penalty to happiness per 3375 people.
• +2.5% happiness per 1% population growth (stat called population boom)
• +5% happiness per governor's influence point.
• Distance to capital is counted by how many provinces there are between you and the capital. This is +5% happiness penalty per province in the way.
• Per 5% of distance from capital there is an increase in corruption which seem to vary immensely depending on the wealth and size of the province.
• Farm income depends on poor/average/good harvest which depends on the fertility of the province.
• Tax bonuses cause:
  30% increase to happiness on low and a 0.5% population increase.
  0% increase to happiness on medium and no population increase.
  20% penalty to happiness on high and a 0.5% population decrease.
  40% penalty to happiness on very high and a 1% population decrease.
• For every 5% to law one corruption point is taken off.

I hope all this helps. As for caps I don't know much about them.

[lottrbacchus]

well i ran some preliminary tests. it is actually quite easy- i created a new folder at the same level as imperial_campaign and messed around with the descr_strat file to my heart' content. the one issue with that, me being new to modding, is that all the other files (about buildings and traits and ancillaries, etc) are on a higher level.

anyhow- after running a few tests on my capital city with add_population and my faction heir with give_trait, i did manage to find a few interesting things.

1) adding population of over 3000 at a time gave me a diminishing return- if tried to add, say, 40000 people, i might only get a couple of thou8sand added to the settlement size. 3000 always worked though.

2) it has been written that squalor caps at 125%. mine stayed at 100% loyalty penalty but with a 12.5 or 15% penalty to growth when my capital was 13k-19k population.

3) to make a preliminary story short, law for sure maxes out at 125%, and it doesn't matter if it is one source (governor with all the right traits) or a mix (governor plus pantheon).

4) squalor is a much more difficult subject, since it seems that a governor can only have a total of -10 (50%) with all the right traits (GoodBuilder 3, KindRuler 3, NaturalPhilosophySkill 3, and Prim 3 (which only gives a -1 to squalor)). That with an architect ancillary upgraded to a -3 squalor effect gave me non-linear results in some cases. once, i got a -25 to squalor and a -50 to squalor with the same governor and after eliminating other possible factors.

BUT in the interest of time, i often made many changes in the same turn, so that could account for lots of strangeness (as in losing my farm bonus to pop growth once until i upgraded the farm building, then it went from 0 to 10)

BUT BUT- if there is an upper limit to reducing squalor from a character, it *might* be reached but not surpassed without cheating on vanilla rtw.

with a governor's palace and 16k people in my capital, i had 65 squalor when my governor was not in the city, down to 15 when he entered (which meshes with the total unmodded -10 maximum for traits), and that went to 0 when a different general came back and transferred the -3 squalor architect back to the governor.

so- for sure, law is maxed at 125, squalor needs more work, but if you have your tax rate at low or medium, it is very easy to pick up the useless assesor trait!!! i got this on all my tests.

oh- i might add this to a diferent thread, but in 1.5, assassins DO NOT get GoodConspirator upgrades for sabotage. i put one in who completed 5 sabotage missions with no bonus. since the first bonus should come (at the latest) after your second successful mission... and yes, i did have him whack a random diplomat and he went from 2nd to 3rd level of GoodAssassin trait, so i know that it wasn't some glitch keeping him from progressing at all.

[lottrbacchus]

YES! this is the sort of info i want to compile. if you could please please please alter the conditions to see if/when the various effects max out, well, then that would help immensely! like about the happiness bonus because of population boom. does that max out or not? would a 40% population growth give 100% happiness bonus that turn?

why does it matter? to me at least, as a fledgling modder, it matters hugely!

anyhow- on OAI's list he correctly said that there is a 5% loyalty bonus per influence point of the governor, but in my tests that maxed out at 40%.

also, at one point a switched governors, and the new governor had what would be a -2 influence, but that didn't effect loyalty/happiness at all.

but i do know that a governor can actually have a negative effect as one of my generals in my actual campaign drops happiness whenever he goes into a settlement.

i suspect this has to do with traits that specifically say give a minus to the attitude of 'the people'. i originally thought it was only 'the people' on the senate floor window, but all those blue faces when 'quintus the irredeemably foulmouthed' came to town has changed my mind.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

I just found out something about unrest:

• Unrest is caused by having spies in the settlement or the settlement changing hands several times or having a general with unrest causing traits.
• +1 unrest on a trait = -5% penalty to happiness in my tests.
• Unrest seems to be capped at a maximum of 40% unrest.
• The skill of a spy effects the amount of unrest caused. In my test it was 5% unrest per subterfuge point.

I hope this helps.