Inquisitors, excommunication and interdicts

**diotavelli** · 02-07-2007, 10:39

I know from reading posts elsewhere that a lot of people get irritated by Inquisitors having the ability to summarily execute senior nobility and royalty.

This is historically inaccurate (the most senior figure ever executed thus was Jacques de Molay, Grand Master of the Templars, who wasn't royal and was killed for political reasons), irritating and, IMO, bad for gameplay. The choice is either to hide generals from Inquisitors, to spend time on mind-boggling micro-management to improve piety or to simply put up with your best-laid plans being ruined. All in all, a shame.

What would have been far better would have been an approach closer to historical accuracy. Rather than having the Pope excommunicate whole factions, he should have been able to put them under Interdict. All religious services were banned (this happened on a number of occasions, famously to King John of England) and interaction with the country involved was frowned upon.

This could be reflected in the game by having the entire faction temporarily lose all benefits from religious buildings, have loyalty take a hit and have trade rights cancelled. It would be a serious problem that would take some management to deal with. Historically, interdict led to rebellious generals and cities, a loss of trade and a drop in morale and this would be a great challenge for players.

Excommunication could be relegated to the position it should hold. It was very rarely actioned against entire populations, focusing rather on individuals. The Pope could excommunicate anyone anytime for certain gross offences; more typically, Inquisitors visiting a province might excommunicate the entire province, its governor and/or any resident generals.

Excommunication would depend upon the piety of the individual or the level of heresy in the region. Excommunicate regions would suffer the effects of excommunication but on a smaller scale. Excommunicate individuals would lose all benefits of piety, plus take a hit on command (they might even gain dread points if they're a repeat offender) - generals would lead demoralised armies or possibly face desertions (already in the game for crusader armies) and governors would struggle to maintain law and order.

If there have to be deaths, the Inquisitors could organise auto da fé for suitable retinue figures or simply announce "heretics have been found under your command". That happened. Generals did lose soldiers under their command to execution for heresy. But the generals themselves did not die - certainly not in the numbers they can do in the game.

OK, rant over. I realise it's too late to incorporate this approach in the game - but I had to get this off my chest!

Any thoughts?

**sapi** · 02-07-2007, 10:47

Well, personally i've never been troubled by inquisitors, so i fail to see most people's problem

It's an interesting idea but it could be annoying from a gameplay perspective.

**diotavelli** · 02-07-2007, 11:10

Originally Posted by sapi

Well, personally i've never been troubled by inquisitors, so i fail to see most people's problem

Any tips to share your success? Apart from always playing as an Orthodox or Muslim faction?

Originally Posted by sapi

It's an interesting idea but it could be annoying from a gameplay perspective.

More annoying than the current, ridiculous "oops, your king has just been executed in his own capital, surrounded by cardinals, a large garrison and a happy, loyal populace"?

**sapi** · 02-07-2007, 11:23

Any tips to share your success? Apart from always playing as an Orthodox or Muslim faction?

There's two plans i follow:

1) Send a diplomat to rome asap and gift a tribute of 100f/turn for 100 turns. Get an alliance if you can, but dont' push it. This way your reputation repairs itself after failing a papal mission. Quicksave before them all in case the pope is having a bad day and excomms you though

2) Let yourself get excommunicated quicky so that the pope doesn't have time to send inquisitors. Destroy the papacy, and kill every new pope that is elected until one of yours sits on the papal throne.

As Milan, i had the papacy destroyed on vh/vh at turn 4

**Lorenzo_H** · 02-07-2007, 11:39

Originally Posted by sapi

As Milan, i had the papacy destroyed on vh/vh at turn 4

lmao; who called crusades then?

As Spain, I found inquisitors came to my lands simply because I was Spain. I had a high reputation with the Pope, so I don't think it had anything to do with that. There were, coicidentally, a lot of heretics and witches though - this may have done it. I also might want to point out that at least 3 of my family members were burned for heresy and as a result I have had a huge shortage of Generals and Governers.

**diotavelli** · 02-07-2007, 11:43

Originally Posted by sapi

1) Send a diplomat to rome asap and gift a tribute of 100f/turn for 100 turns. Get an alliance if you can, but dont' push it. This way your reputation repairs itself after failing a papal mission. Quicksave before them all in case the pope is having a bad day and excomms you though

I'm playing as England currently, on H/H. I'm allied to the Pope and have been since about turn 5 (now on 35 or so). My standing has never dropped below very good and has normally been higher. I've been tributing 100f/turn ever since I made first contact with his 'Holiness'.

Yet I've lost about five generals, including my king, to Inquisitors. OK, I'm operating in French territory and the French aren't too pious (hence the presence of the Inquisitors) but I'm definitely one of the good guys.

Surely the AI should know that, even if I'm in impious territory, the guy he's about to execute is best buddies with the top fella?

**sapi** · 02-07-2007, 11:50

Interesting point.

I've never run into that problem to a large extent (when i'm being good to the pope i pick on muslims only) but an inquisitor once killed my best general because i left him in italy too long on crusade :(

**gardibolt** · 02-07-2007, 20:52

Originally Posted by diotavelli

I'm playing as England currently, on H/H. I'm allied to the Pope and have been since about turn 5 (now on 35 or so). My standing has never dropped below very good and has normally been higher. I've been tributing 100f/turn ever since I made first contact with his 'Holiness'.

Yet I've lost about five generals, including my king, to Inquisitors. OK, I'm operating in French territory and the French aren't too pious (hence the presence of the Inquisitors) but I'm definitely one of the good guys.

Surely the AI should know that, even if I'm in impious territory, the guy he's about to execute is best buddies with the top fella?

That's the danger of going after the less-than-papally-approved Catholic factions: there may a swarm of Inquisitors in their lands, and they're not picky about whether you're the one who originally caused the heresy problem.

After installing the 1.1 patch, the Inquisitors continued to attack me in France, until I did the Box-of-8 trick and killed two of them; the rest then wandered off and they haven't bothered me since.