Should the Federal Min Wage be Raised?

[Ice]

Discuss. I have an opinion, but I want to hear others first. I love this macroeconomics class... I think I've finally found my calling.

[Crazed Rabbit]

No.

It is bad economically (Less people hired, especially for small businesses, etc.), and

People should be able to engage in transactions with each other as they see fit, not as the government demands.

CR

[Proletariat]

No. Not until we do something about illegal immigration. These scumbags want to allow every Mexican they see amnesty, plummeting low skilled wages, then they hike up the minimum wage for these jobs. Pick one or the other, Democrats (and Bush). Either rape the working class outright, or stick up for them.

[lars573]

The very idea of the federal government setting minimum wage. Ricidulous.

[Lemur]

Prole is right about the root of the problem. Illegal immigrants and the businesses that love them make a mockery of the minimum wage, anyway. Why bother having one at all, given the reality on the ground?

FWIW, people have been forecasting rampant inflation and the death of the American economy due to minimum wage (and hikes) for decades. The impact seems to be marginal, in every sense of the word.

[GoreBag]

I have nothing to add, but the .org doesn't let me make empty posts.

[Xiahou]

No, there should be no minimum wage at all. People should be able to work for whatever wage they're will to and employers should pay what they need to to find and keep employees.

[Fisherking]

Bad idea...the short version:


Minimum Wage doesn’t help the guy at the bottom because all bossiness have to raise prices to cover additional costs of employment. (usually the quarter before it takes effect, so you loose even before you get it)

Because all employers can't just raise prices (commodities) it costs jobs.

These price increases effectively give everyone less buying power (a pay cut).

However, the governments have more tax income. (sales tax, withholding tax, social security, Medicare, etc.) It's still inflated but they see more gold.

It all seems pretty cynical to me…

[Banquo's Ghost]

I don't know how it works in the States, but in countries where the government has a benefit available to top up wages to a basic living income, the minimum wage stops employers using this as a subsidy to depress the wage they need to pay.

I often read that many Americans on low pay have to work several jobs just to make ends meet, so this gap probably doesn't apply there.

[Major Robert Dump]

Poor people should know their place. If they don't like being poor, then they need to get married and have some kids so they get tax breaks and welfare. The idea of paying 15 more cents for a Crispy Taco so some scmhuck can make 35 more dollars a week absolutely offends me. If minimum wage workers want to make more money then they should save up for 14 years and get an education at a Big 12 university or go to VoTech and learn how to weld. I also don't believe in overtime or workers compensation. Stupid government interference.

[Fisherking]

The offensive part of this to me is that extra $35 a week has turned in to a net loss of $6.35 in an attempt to make his lot better, but everyone feels so good about helping the guy. But no one can be bothered to look at that…so if they raise it more maybe someday he will brake even…or get a new job, or maybe a miracle will happen….

Should we mandate that everyone make the same amount and anything extra goes to the government?

[AntiochusIII]

Poor people should know their place. If they don't like being poor, then they need to get married and have some kids so they get tax breaks and welfare. The idea of paying 15 more cents for a Crispy Taco so some scmhuck can make 35 more dollars a week absolutely offends me. If minimum wage workers want to make more money then they should save up for 14 years and get an education at a Big 12 university or go to VoTech and learn how to weld. I also don't believe in overtime or workers compensation. Stupid government interference.

Sarcasm?

Pretty laissez-faire attitudes flying around here. Makes me wonder. They tend to have just as much flaws as the socialist raise-everybody's-wages-and-feel-good attitudes.

[doc_bean]

Only if they can passa law that forces employers who hire under minimum wage (including hiring illegals) to pay back all of the difference for the duration of the violation (half of what was owned to the employee to the employee, the other half to the state, and all that was owned to the state, to the state), plus a heavy fine.

Minimum wage isn't so bad as some people here claim, compnanies will demand more from the workers that they have to pay more, it's only slightly problematic in true unskilled labour when there is a large workforce (market), which there probably isn't, seeing as how many illegals are employed.

[Fisherking]

I was going to post these on the quotations page, but I think they fit better here at the moment.

Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first.
Mark Twain

I am opposed to millionaires, but it would be dangerous to offer me the position.
Mark Twain

If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man.
Mark Twain

When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.
Mark Twain

[Mooks]

Im going to be a lifeguard hopefully next summer (im 15). I read in the newspaper (15 year old reading a newspaper eh?) that they were increasing it, and I was hoping for it. A little bit more extra money in my pocket.

The newspaper was for it also. Said something about a big percentage of people were getting minimun wage but the cost of living is wayy over minuman wage.

[Marshal Murat]

1)Bad minimum wage increase. While the Democrats call themselves the 'small buisness party' the minimum wage increase isn't what the economy needs. The minimum wage, I feel, cancels out any advantage it renders. With small companies having to pay their employee's more, they have to raise the prices on whatever they sell. Cancels it out.

2)Minimum wage is good. It prevents employers from paying nil for the labor. If you look at 1800's industrial wages for iron smelting, textiles, or other labor, its however works for the lowest wage. This allows everyone to theoretically work at the same level.

3)If companies weren't protecting their companies *China* cough, then we wouldn't have to raise the minimum wage.

[Fragony]

No, there should be no minimum wage at all. People should be able to work for whatever wage they're will to and employers should pay what they need to to find and keep employees.

That stands or falls with the goodwill of the employer, what if a company like Wallmart or another giant manages to bleed a towns economy dry, killing all local shops and services,then not having a minimum is too open for exploitation of the workers. But it should be just that, a minimum, too little to live and too much to die, company's need to stay competitive after all, and people can take an extra job.

[JimBob]

Im going to be a lifeguard hopefully next summer (im 15). I read in the newspaper (15 year old reading a newspaper eh?) that they were increasing it, and I was hoping for it. A little bit more extra money in my pocket.

Minimum Wage doesn't apply to minors. We have on that is lower, 4.50 to 5.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

A few points to consider:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The US Department of Labor reported 97.5% of working Americans make more than minimum wage of $5.15 per hour in 2005. Adults, age 25 or older, earning minimum wage accounted for only 1.5% of the labor force. And, among working adults earning minimum wage, only 0.3% were living at or below our nation’s poverty line. In other words, 80% of those who stand to benefit from a hike in the minimum wage do not even come from households living at or below the poverty line.

The face of America’s minimum-wage earner is typically not the single parent trying to feed his or her family. According to the 2005 Department of Labor statistics, over 82% of minimum-wage earners did not have any dependents. Half of all those earning minimum wage were under age 25 and one-fourth were between the ages of 16 and 19. Three-fifths of all minimum wage employees worked only part time.

In fact, America’s minimum-wage earners are mostly teenagers and young adults who work only part-time, have no dependents and enjoy an average annual household income of $64,273, according to a 2006 report by The Heritage Foundation.

So is this legislation a concerned act of caring for that 0.3% of the American workforce -- or might it just (purely by coincidence of course) be an effort to pay off support Union Labor, many of whose contracts are set up not as wage rates per hour, but as X amount per hour above the Federal Minimum Wage.

If you abolish the federal minimum wage, the unions will all negotiate contracts for flat wage per hour compensations; the companies that traditionally employ almost all student-aged part timers will lower their wages -- they'll be able to increase their profits at the expense of their workers since students don't have the skills to say TTJASI in any meaningful way [note, this will put a hit on the recording industry and the movie industry as this market segment is big for them and that segment will have less money]; and the vast majority of workers will continue to recieve more or less the same compensation that they do now.

Is it wise government to legislate for a segment of our society that numbers fewer than 900,000 persons out of a nation of 300 millions, when the impact of that change will (must) cause a decrease in economic viability for many US small businesses (20%+ of all jobs), increase costs to consumers (higher union wages = higher prices for many goods/services), and make the purchase of a home more difficult (REGULATED increase in wages = inflationary pressure = tightened money supply by Fed = increased interest rates)?

Yet the measure is popular (75%+ by latest polling data) and has direct political benefit to the Democrat party. Therefore, it is a done deal, get used to it.

[Lemur]

It is bad economically (Less people hired, especially for small businesses, etc.)

No, there should be no minimum wage at all. People should be able to work for whatever wage they're will to and employers should pay what they need to to find and keep employees.

Minimum Wage doesn’t help the guy at the bottom because all bossiness have to raise prices to cover additional costs of employment. (usually the quarter before it takes effect, so you loose even before you get it)

Because all employers can't just raise prices (commodities) it costs jobs.

These posts have been brought to you by the letter Q, the Cato Institute and Ayn Rand. Special thanks to the late 1800s laissez-faire capitalists, with a tip of the hat to Montgomery Burns.

[Scurvy]

Poor people should know their place. If they don't like being poor, then they need to get married and have some kids so they get tax breaks and welfare.

I hope thats sarcasm....

Im going to be a lifeguard hopefully next summer (im 15). I read in the newspaper (15 year old reading a newspaper eh?) that they were increasing it, and I was hoping for it. A little bit more extra money in my pocket.

certainly in the uk it only applies 16--> over i think, i had a few months at start of my job (when i was 15) where i was paid below

this all sounds slight laissez faire to me (already been mentioned) something that i thought got left behind in the late 1800's

--> minimum wage is good and necessary, rise would be slightly questionable due to illegals undercutting, and the amount it would cost economically...

[Xiahou]

These posts have been brought to you by the letter Q, the Cato Institute and Ayn Rand. Special thanks to the late 1800s laissez-faire capitalists, with a tip of the hat to Montgomery Burns.

*cough* SPAM *cough*cough*


Seamus makes a good point- the Democrats push the minimum wage to pander to their union special interests, but use the "Why do you hate poor people?" attack to demonize any who oppose it. It's a clever and effect attempt at drowning out and serious debate on the issue. Forget the fact that virtually no one depends on minimum wage jobs to get by....

Honestly, I would have a hard time even thinking of a job in my area that pays minimum wage. Even the job signs plastered in the windows at the local Burger King offer wages well above the minimum. Our unemployment is very low and we have a growing economy- with a tight labor market, wages grow on their own without government tinkering.

[Ice]

*cough* SPAM *cough*cough*


Seamus makes a good point- the Democrats push the minimum wage to pander to their union special interests, but use the "Why do you hate poor people?" attack to demonize any who oppose it. It's a clever and effect attempt at drowning out and serious debate on the issue. Forget the fact that virtually no one depends on minimum wage jobs to get by....

Honestly, I would have a hard time even thinking of a job in my area that pays minimum wage. Even the job signs plastered in the windows at the local Burger King offer wages well above the minimum. Our unemployment is very low and we have a growing economy- with a tight labor market, wages grow on their own without government tinkering.

, I was waiting for someone to post something like this. How I feel exactly.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

It doesn't effect enough people to be bad economically. Didn't this pass the senate by 94-3?

[yesdachi]

I think it is a smart thing to have a minimum set by the gov. (companies will rape you given the chance) but I also think the people have the responsibility to work for what they think they are worth, don’t do a job that doesn’t pay what you think it should, unless your standards are too high, they will eventually offer more money to fill the position.

I can not think of a job around here that pays minimum wage (and MI still has double digit unemployment). When I was in high school I de-tasseled corn during the summer for more than minimum wage and that was the lamest seasonal farm work ever. I remember on the first episode of “30 Days”, the FX TV series, Morgan tries to live on minimum wage for 30 days and is not even able to find a job that would pay that low.

Half of me says go ahead and raise it, no one is working for it anyway, while the other half of me says, why bother most everyone is ignoring it. If some companies are struggling so badly that raising their employees wages by a few bucks a week puts them under then maybe they are not a strong enough company to deserve to be around anyway.

Disclaimer: I am pretty ignorant when it comes to economics and the long term repercussions of some economic decisions. The same naivety makes me want to eliminate all mosquito’s even thou I suspect they fill some critical role in other animals survival.

[Samurai Waki]

We need to increase minimum wage. The last time I saw, 65% of youths within the next 5-15 years will not be able to afford a house, unless the value of land lowers considerably in the next couple of years. That means we'll have a good 20% of population held up in tenaments and the rest living in low income housing. Now Thats a bad forecast on the economy.

[Fisherking]

Well if you don't like the short explanation of the fallacy of minimum wage, chances are you would only fall asleep and never finish the long one.

I see it as a cheap vote getting scam…but if you want to believe it go right ahead.

Suffice it to say that I favour something that would actually benefit the worker rather than just some feel good measure.

If you want to tie workers wages in a company to the top CEO's salary I'm not going to say a word. I firmly believe that the employer has as much responsibility to his workers as to his stockholders, after all, who is more responsible for profit and productivity…but try to get that passed in Washington…if either party brought it up for a vote it I would buy you all a beer.

Telling why it’s a good idea is a waste of time..so *deleted*

Sense you guys think Congress and the Government can fix all this stuff and are doing so wonderfully maybe you should get them to look beyond economics….to say relativity and gravity…have them save us all time and effort!

[Crazed Rabbit]

I think it is a smart thing to have a minimum set by the gov. (companies will rape you given the chance)

And unions will do the same to companies, and get support from the government. This nannying should stop - if you want a higher paying job, work for it, don't cry to the gov't.

Half of me says go ahead and raise it, no one is working for it anyway, while the other half of me says, why bother most everyone is ignoring it. If some companies are struggling so badly that raising their employees wages by a few bucks a week puts them under then maybe they are not a strong enough company to deserve to be around anyway.

What do you mean, 'deserve' to be around?

Disclaimer: I am pretty ignorant when it comes to economics and the long term repercussions of some economic decisions. The same naivety makes me want to eliminate all mosquito’s even thou I suspect they fill some critical role in other animals survival.

No argument here.

We need to increase minimum wage. The last time I saw, 65% of youths within the next 5-15 years will not be able to afford a house, unless the value of land lowers considerably in the next couple of years. That means we'll have a good 20% of population held up in tenaments and the rest living in low income housing. Now Thats a bad forecast on the economy.

Why don't you argue for a decrease on housing regulation to lower housing costs?
Gov't regulation almost never helps the economy. Ya, those lucky enough to get jobs will be able to afford slightly more - though the cost of everything will increase due to inflation, but people will buy less, and get less for their money.

Take a look at the stats Seamus posted.

Pretty laissez-faire attitudes flying around here. Makes me wonder. They tend to have just as much flaws as the socialist raise-everybody's-wages-and-feel-good attitudes.

No, actually, they don't. Adam Smith is based upon human nature, socialism goes against human nature and economics.

CR

[Xiahou]

We need to increase minimum wage. The last time I saw, 65% of youths within the next 5-15 years will not be able to afford a house, unless the value of land lowers considerably in the next couple of years. That means we'll have a good 20% of population held up in tenaments and the rest living in low income housing. Now Thats a bad forecast on the economy.

And is that because 65% of youths are making minimum wage? I think not. If you have it, I'd love to read the article that's taken from though.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

It doesn't effect enough people to be bad economically. Didn't this pass the senate by 94-3?

See post above. The number of people being influenced by the officially intended direct effect is small - possibly inconsequential.

How it plays into other factors indicates a far broader impact -- and one that is more to the bad than the good in my opinion.