Chavez Says Yes to Coup d'Etat

[Del Arroyo]

http://www.globovision.com/news.php?nid=48767

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The President and Others are Reported to the Attorney General for Supporting Crime by Exalting the 4th of February Coup

Oscar Perez, a member of the National Resistance Command, went to the Attorney General today to report president Hugo Chavez, minister of defense Raul Isaias Baduel, minister of communication and information Willian Lara, and high-ranking military officials, considering that in the celebration of the 4th of February they had supported crime and instigated delinquency by exalting the coup d'etat.

Mr. Perez said he went to the AG because "when the president of the Republic [who was] also the military commander of a coup attempt against the legitimately constituted government of [Carlos] Perez, institutionalizes [this coup] with a military parade, thus violating Article 138, it is upon the Attorney General to either legalize coups d'etat in our country or not.

"If the AG does not issue an indictment against the president of the Republic, any other citizen, if he believes we are confronted with an embarrassing, corrupt, immoral and repressive government, could go ahead and organize a coup d'etat and in no moment could he be indicted by the Public Ministry."

Perez said that the Public Ministry has the choice of either legalizing or not coups d'etat in Venezuela.

Ex-captain Carlon Buyon, who accompanied president Chavez in the adventure of the 4th of February, today accompanied Perez in reporting him to the AG. He considered this episode to be a crime, saying that the chief of State had committed another one yesterday in exalting this date.

"Yesterday the President of the Republic legitimized coups d'etat, so that now any citizen can launch one if he believes that this government or any other could be defeated by a military coup.

"I believe that this is supporting crime and that this type of activity invites the delinquency of the Venezuelan people."

[Tribesman]

A media source whose owners tried a coup carries an article about a bloke who was in that coup complaining about an older attempted coup

Hmmmm.....nice bloke that Perez , I wonder what his role was in getting a coup plotter who was later accused of murder out of the country to sanctuary in Florida ?
Nice to see him and his foriegn financed Revolutionary council standing up for law and order

globovision articles abourt Chavez , what a crock of manure Del . Its like using an article from Skrewdriver to support objections to immigrants

[Del Arroyo]

Are you questioning the factuality of the article? If so, how?

Or do you deny the apparent contradiction in Chavez holding festivities to celebrate a military coup?

What is your response to the argument that Chavez, who attempted a coup in '92, and his opposition, be it politicians, newspapers, or whoever, who attempted a coup in 2002, are morally equivalent? Because that is really the only argument that is being made here.

[IrishArmenian]

Give the U.S. two years to fund Venezuelan capitalists, Chavez will have a nice, "legal" coup.

[Watchman]

What, are the Seventies back in fashion again ?

[Tribesman]

Are you questioning the factuality of the article? If so, how?

Cor thats a hard one Del ........errrrrrr , oh yeah 350

[Del Arroyo]

How would one pronounce a laughing smiley face? I mean, "lol" can be "ell oh ell", and "1337" is "leet". But I find myself at a loss searching for a verbal expression of this graphic symbol.

If someone were to succeed in vocalizing the laughing smiley face, I would predict that, like other net-speak, it will probably not gain much traction in spoken vocabulary, outside perhaps a few isolated groups.

[dacdac]

El Senor Chavez es el nino del Diablo.
Something is wrong with that countries politics.
Definition of politics

Poly-many
ticks-blood sucking creatures.
Put them together and you get politics!!
I think that pretty much sums it up. I dont even understand why we have words. Smilies work fine.

[Marshal Murat]

Hugo Chavez, Tisk Tisk

[Tribesman]

Ah poor Del , not up on the constitution eh .
How about the name another group similar to National Resistance Command . That might give you a clue

Oh in case you missed the point of the smilie faces .......

Are you questioning the factuality of the article?

....you have got to be joking right ......or are you by any chance actually serious about that rubbish .
In which case this mightbe a more appropriate smilie
Tell you what Del , why not try some other stories to check for factuality Like corruption and nepotism never existed in Venezuela until Chavez got in power , all the votes are rigged and only 6% of Venezuelan people support the block of political parties that Chavez represents .

Factuality bollox Globovision is a joke . Still it could be worse you could be posting articles from El Universal .

[Del Arroyo]

Lo que a mi me queda claro es que el señorino no entiende el castellano, y ya siendo esto el caso, no entiendo como puede saber nada de verdad sobre los periodicos que estamos platicando.

[Ser Clegane]

Please keep it English on this board. Switching to another language is rather rude.

Thanks

[Tribesman]

Please keep it English on this board. Switching to another language is rather rude.

No worries .

So Del who doesn't know what they are talking about regarding the subect silly boy

Come on then what is 138 ? English or Spanish will do , perhaps even French German or Swahili . It makes no difference the article is bollox which is not surprising considering the source , and Perez is a bit of a bollox too

[Vladimir]

Please keep it English on this board. Switching to another language is rather rude.

Thanks

No no, this is quite entertaining.



That sums up my thoughts on the subject.

[Kralizec]

No no, this is quite entertaining.



That sums up my thoughts on the subject.

*is overwhelmed by all this information*

[Moros]

Aaaagh... Now that's humour!

[Del Arroyo]

English or Spanish will do , perhaps even French German or Swahili

Evidently not

Seriously though, given that the information provided in the article is publicly established fact, I am surprised that you would attempt to attack it on these grounds. Chavez did launch a coup in '92, a coup was launched against him in 2002, Chavez and high-ranking officials did celebrate the 1992 coup with a military parade and fanfare this Sunday, Oscar Perez did report him before the Attorney General, and Oscar Perez and Carlos Muyon did make statements and express opinions as they were reported in the article. All of these things are facts, irrefutable facts, and this is all the article contains.

But if you would like to question any of these publicly etablished and thus far unquestioned facts, I would be interested to hear your argument. Though obviously any such argument will be a failure.

A more rational approach might be to disagree with the premise of the accusations made by Oscar Perez. If you have some points to express along these lines, I would also be interested to hear them.

EDIT: Here is the same story as reported by a leading Spanish newspaper: http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2007/0...170728084.html

[Goofball]

Chavez is an idiot.

That's all I have to say about that.

*Forest runs from the room*

[Kralizec]

Chavez is an idiot.

That's all I have to say about that.

*Forest runs from the room*

I'd say he's a fairly clever guy actually, who knows well enough when he can get away with something outrageous like this.

[Tribesman]

Seriously though, given that the information provided in the article is publicly established fact, I am surprised that you would attempt to attack it on these grounds.

Don't be bloody silly , if it was a publicly established fact then Oscar Perez would be making the same claims in another Venezuelan anti-government media source , instead he gives different "facts" in his claims .
So which undisputed fact is the true undisputed "fact" has he filed a complaint for violating 138 as according to Globovision or under 143 as according to El Universal .

Though obviously any such argument will be a failure.

Obviously you are unfamiliar with the courts findings concerning the actions of Carlos Perez prior to and around the time of the 2 attempted coups in '92. Just as you are unfamiliar with the findings of the IACHR inquiry .

The main problem with the "facts" Oscar Perez tries to bluster through is that celebrating a past historical event with a parade does not legalise coups , he is once again trying to push through his interpretation on 350 even though that has already been ruled on several times .

Chavez is an idiot.

Yeah , but he must have had some bloody good lawyers working the wording of the new constitution with him , it is pretty comprehensive and watertight , so while he is an idiot he isn't as dumb as most of the opposition .

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

What, are the Seventies back in fashion again ?

The seventies were always in fashion.





I wonder if Chavez listens to much classic rock?

[Del Arroyo]

Oh please, Oscar Perez is giving his own opinion. Globovision is simply quoting what he has said, and as long as the quote is accurate and correctly attributed, they have committed no factual error. Which means that the Globovision article is not factually "bollox", though in your opinion the views expressed by Oscar Perez are.

http://www.globovision.com/news.php?nid=48765

In this later Globovision article, they cite opposition leaders as saying that the 4th of February celebrations violate Article 328 of the Constitution, which declares the military to be "essentially professional, without political militancy", and Article 143 of the Penal Code, which outlaws publicly supporting the ouster of a legitimately instituted government. These are the same two articles cited in El Universal, which also cites Article 285 of the Penal Code. I'm not sure where Article 138 came from, but if we could know what it was we'd be in a better position to judge.

At any rate, publicly celebrating what was a military attempt to seize power from a legitimately elected government, if it does not violate these two articles, does most definitely contradict them. That is all the opposition is trying to do here-- point out an apparent contradiction in the President's attitudes and actions.

[Tribesman]

they cite opposition leaders as saying that the 4th of February celebrations violate Article 328 of the Constitution, which declares the military to be "essentially professional, without political militancy"

328 states a hell of a lot more than that Del

Though of course for the actions of '92 itself you would have to go back to the '61 constitution , which like the current one states that the military must not be politically biased and must uphold the constitution , Carlos Perez was well in violation of the constitution at that time .

Article 143 of the Penal Code, which outlaws publicly supporting the ouster of a legitimately instituted government.

Oscar Perez breaks that law nearly every time he makes a speech or gives an interview .

At any rate, publicly celebrating what was a military attempt to seize power from a legitimately elected government, if it does not violate these two articles, does most definitely contradict them.

A government operating in violation of the constitution is no longer a legitimate government . The government of Carlos Perez fits that bill , so far Hugo Chavez has managed to not be operating in violation of the constitution .
The clever thing he managed to do is make the constitution that he has to follow

Oh and that 138 , thats about the null and void laws bit , which just by some big surprise happens to be more bollox from Oscar , kindly repeated by the 24 hour sellers of bollox .

[Watchman]

Oh and that 138 , thats about the null and void laws bit , which just by some big surprise happens to be more bollox from Oscar , kindly repeated by the 24 hour sellers of bollox .

Do they give volume discounts ?