What he said.Originally Posted by Redleg
What he said.Originally Posted by Redleg
"Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."
-Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster
It's a very sad episode but unfortunately things like this can happen in a war.
The pilots, from what i can tell, acted appropiately, and while there is a question of bad training (in not recognising the markings) the fault seems to lie mainly with the controller.
From wise men, O Lord, protect us -anon
The death of one man is a tragedy; the death of millions, a statistic -Stalin
We can categorically state that we have not released man-eating badgers into the area -UK military spokesman Major Mike Shearer
The fault lies with both the controllers and the pilots .
The pilots didn't clearly establish where they were and where their "targets" were .
The controllers didn't clearly establish where the planes were and where the friendlies were .
The problem was that the planes were no longer over their original target .
Plus of course not waiting for the marking rounds was very stupid of the pilots .
Last edited by Tribesman; 02-08-2007 at 11:38.
Originally Posted by Tribesman
The fault lies with more then just the controllers and the pilots.
What was discussed in the mission briefing prior to departing for the mission? Did the British and the American's coordinate with each other where the units in the field were expected to be? We the combat graphic passed between all the headquarters involved? Why wasn't a NFA or RFL established to protect the british convoy from just such a possiblity? Why wasn't the friendly unit markers for british units included in the briefing? Why wasn't the british using the same control panel techniques of the American Army? (This is suppose to be the same for all Allied units in the combat area)
There is a lot more to combat coordination for a Close Air Support Mission then the simple placing of blame that your attempting here. The only part that you are 100% correct is the not waiting for a marking round. All parties screwed up in that regard.
In otherwords the whole damn chain of command involved on both sides screwed the pooch on this event. To much information does not seemed to have been passed between both the American's and the British. The American Military has the greater share of the blame because of the failure to mark the target and proper target identification by the pilots - but there is a whole lot more to this particlur espisode of friendly fire then what is being reported in the papers.
Attempting to paint this tragic event as anything other then what it is - a tragic event by individuals that have been in combat for some time, probably flying at the limit or beyond them that were established in training. Poor coordination by all concerned as anything other then what it is - a tragic mistake on the battlefield - Anything else borders on a false conclusion.
Focus on the stupidity of the Chain of Command at the Pentagon that attempted to deny the existance of the video and the recording of the cockpit to FAC communications that is pretty much standard fare for the military. Focus on the stupidity of the British MOD who knew the tape existed in the first place - since the British Military also functions in a very similiar way to the United States in this regard.
Last edited by Redleg; 02-08-2007 at 20:17.
O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean
Excellent analysis, Redleg. I agree.
![]()
"If there is a sin against life, it consists not so much in despairing as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this one."
Albert Camus "Noces"
Yeah, no one likes an incompetant, ill-advised and ineffective cover-up like the dear old MoD!
In the old days it was easy - you just said "killed in action" and nobody would speak up who knew any better. These days you have accountability, video tapes, nosey journos and the like and the MoD hasn't quite caught up.
I say the primary fault on the day lies with the pilots. The radio records suggest that they did everything right up until the last moment, when they made a bad call. They failed to identify the targets but did identify what looked like friendly markings. So they called their controllers for confirmation. The controllers mistakenly (it seems) confirmed the target. Still in doubt due to the markings the pilots requested the targeting round. Then they made their mistake: eager to catch the vehicles before they got to the village they attacked before the arty had marked the target.
The strange thing is that they seem almost certain that the target is friendly and that there is some difference between what the controller is saying and what they themselves are seeing. They ask for one final confirmation and then don't wait for it.
Edit:
Redleg's analysis of the situation leading to such events is very good.
Last edited by Slyspy; 02-09-2007 at 14:26.
"Put 'em in blue coats, put 'em in red coats, the bastards will run all the same!"
"The English are a strange people....They came here in the morning, looked at the wall, walked over it, killed the garrison and returned to breakfast. What can withstand them?"
Hmm sad things.
But soldier must know that "ifis firing at you - don't be worse"
Last edited by Banquo's Ghost; 02-09-2007 at 15:30. Reason: Please watch the language
John Thomas Gross - liar who want put on Poles responsibility for impassivity of American Jews during holocaust
Bookmarks