Defending walls with missile units

[Baygon]

Hi all,

I hope someone could help me with this quite odd issue :

- I'm placing all my missile troops on the walls of my city to defend it.
- When enemies are on range most of them are shooting high high very too high (seems trying to avoid wall's obstacle :hmmm:).
- So, most of them are making much less damage with these "hyperbolic" trajects ... That's a pity ! Because having missile troops when defending is not very important with this issue and should be a very large advantage to battle.

My question is quite simple :

"Is this a bug or do I misplaced them ?"

Thanks.

Ps : sorry for my poor english but it's not my mother tongue ... :( But I'm trying to do my best. ;)

[shawpower]

I think that basically, it happens when something is blocking the archers view of the target. You might find that the front row are aiming properly while the ones at the back are shooting up in the air.

One thing to try is too space the archers in a shallow line along the walls.

Also, don't forget to line the archers up inside your gate before the battle and position your stakes just at the gate. It acts as a nice little extra defense mechanism in the early game when the enemy relies mostly on breaking down your door, instead of blowing up your walls. Once the battle starts run them back up onto the walls and position your infantry behind the stakes.

[Baygon]

So you mean that you also encountered the problem ? I'm not alone !!

Thanks for the stake's trick ! I didn't know we could plant these stakes into an hard ground ... Isn't it in cities ?

[Foz]

Well the archer trajectory things isn't a bug, it's intended behavior. In order to prevent such silliness from RTW as archers blowing away the guys in front of them (a swift shot to the back of the head has to be a bad way to go) it seems that archers now check their shot path and adjust it upwards until it's unobstructed. An unfortunate consequence is that for some reason the wall obstructs their shot most of the time, and they end up giving one of those rainbow shots even if only in one line. A few will fire correctly, and seem to be the ones that can shoot between the merlons and thus have an unobstructed line of sight. It does seem kinda silly though since it looks like they should be able to shoot over the merlons in a lot of cases, so maybe CA will tweak the system a little so they can fire the flatter shot we all seem to want. Outside of that though I don't think there's anything we can do about it.

[Baygon]

Well the archer trajectory things isn't a bug, it's intended behavior. In order to prevent such silliness from RTW as archers blowing away the guys in front of them (a swift shot to the back of the head has to be a bad way to go) it seems that archers now check their shot path and adjust it upwards until it's unobstructed. An unfortunate consequence is that for some reason the wall obstructs their shot most of the time, and they end up giving one of those rainbow shots even if only in one line. A few will fire correctly, and seem to be the ones that can shoot between the merlons and thus have an unobstructed line of sight. It does seem kinda silly though since it looks like they should be able to shoot over the merlons in a lot of cases, so maybe CA will tweak the system a little so they can fire the flatter shot we all seem to want. Outside of that though I don't think there's anything we can do about it.

Ok, I understand ... I hope it will be corrected in a future patch

[Ciaran]

Well the archer trajectory things isn't a bug, it's intended behavior. In order to prevent such silliness from RTW as archers blowing away the guys in front of them (a swift shot to the back of the head has to be a bad way to go) it seems that archers now check their shot path and adjust it upwards until it's unobstructed. An unfortunate consequence is that for some reason the wall obstructs their shot most of the time, and they end up giving one of those rainbow shots even if only in one line. A few will fire correctly, and seem to be the ones that can shoot between the merlons and thus have an unobstructed line of sight. It does seem kinda silly though since it looks like they should be able to shoot over the merlons in a lot of cases, so maybe CA will tweak the system a little so they can fire the flatter shot we all seem to want. Outside of that though I don't think there's anything we can do about it.

What´s even worse, crossbows do the same.
And on the note of RTW´s archer behavior, archers (or any other missile troops) don´t fire if they´re likely to hit men of their own side. Missile units with a flat trajectory (slingers and, in BI, crossbows) don´t fire when they have to shoot through a friendly unit.
And in MTW archers get an accuracy penalty if they´re not able to see their targets.

[Baygon]

I'm really sad about this problem because missile troops are my favourite units !! ... so impressive to see 300 archers shooting on the enemy lines with flamming arrows ...

I'll wait and and see ...

[shawpower]

Thanks for the stake's trick ! I didn't know we could plant these stakes into an hard ground ... Isn't it in cities ?

It works in cities & citidels. Just not right at the gate/wall. You have to have them slightly inside.

[Lorenzo_H]

What units can place sticks? Is it only Longbowmen?

[HoreTore]

What units can place sticks? Is it only Longbowmen?

Longbowmen, Janissary archers and Lithuanian archers.

[Shahed]

Is that all ? I thought there's more.

[Foz]

Well if you take "longbowmen" to refer to that class of archer instead of just the particular unit, this is correct. It includes all English castle archers except for Sherwood (that's Longbowmen, Yeoman, and Retinue Longbowmen), Welsh Longbowmen (and their Merc variety), and Free Company Longbowmen, in addition to Lithuanian Archers and Janissary Archers already mentioned explicitly.

[Marquis of Roland]

I don't know if this is true as I haven't really tested it, but it seems like when my archers have to shoot in a high arc, flaming ammo is more effective than regular shot.

[Baygon]

I don't know if this is true as I haven't really tested it, but it seems like when my archers have to shoot in a high arc, flaming ammo is more effective than regular shot.

... I also have to try it. Maybe this bug is necessary because with 300 archers defending a wall they should (in a realistic battle) kill at least 600 soldiers !! Maybe too difficult to attack in that situation ...

[sapi]

@marquis - since the main problem with flaming arrows is accuracy, i wouldn't be surprised if you were right in that assumption. You have to factor fire rate into it though.

In cities i tend to fire once with flaming then immediately switch to normal for every unit that isn't targeting siege equipment, as they get so many more arrows out there

@baygon - good point - irl archers would incapitate so many men that they'd be overpowered ingame if things were realistic

[shawpower]

It includes all English castle archers except for Sherwood

Is this right? I can't check atm, but I was sure I'd set my Sherwood archers to use stakes in my last game as England?

[bobajob]

@baygon - good point - irl archers would incapitate so many men that they'd be overpowered ingame if things were realistic

I dont know about that, it might force you to actually siege a little more and assault a little less.

[ezoons]

I'm having the same problem.

Still getting used to M2's mechanics, I tried several custom castle defenses the other day.

Each time, I gave the enemy 2 towers and a ram, but I cannot remember my archers (plain longbows but with maxed out experience) destroying the enemy's siege equipment! All there was (out of maybe 5 battles) was a single siege tower!
Mind you, I've been defending a huge city, and maybe its walls are higher (I mean, an archer would always have to shoot upwards).

Funny thing is, I've had some castle battles in my grand campaign, but with less developed towns, my archers never had a problem firing teir arrows in a flatter trajectory.

[todorp]

It is really ridiculous to watch the gunpowder units shoot up

I didn't see that CA fixed this bug in v1.2.

[Baygon]

It is really ridiculous to watch the gunpowder units shoot up

I didn't see that CA fixed this bug in v1.2.

they should ...

[Rozanov]

I was watching my pavise crossbowmen firing at some Mongols at extreme range. Close up I noticed all the crossbowmen (apart from the captain) were standing at the rear edge of the walkway.

At first I thought it odd, but :

1) an angled shot will (as long as it isn't above 40 degs (approx)) give a slightly longer range than a level trajectory shot.

2) standing at the rear means all the crossbowmen can fire, rather than just those standing at the gaps in the merlons (those standing behind merlons have their swords drawn)

[JCoyote]

What gets me about pavise crossbows is they use the pavise from their back. There's not much historical support for that, not much rational support for it either. Not only would the shield have to be lighter than most pavise were, being directly on the body it would be less effective for its thickness as well. (No air gap.)

I really think pavise should be handled like shield equipment; slows them down but offers protection and accuracy advantages, but they can drop it to fight as "normal" crossbows instead.