Question about projectiles

[caravel]

I need to add the ninjastar projectile to a unit. In the crusader_unit_prod11.txt there are lines such as: "PROJECTILE_TYPE( MTLG )". The "MTLG" somehow corresponding to the "mountedlongbow" in the projectilestats.txt? How is the short name linked to the long name???

So for the ninjastar: PROJECTILE_TYPE( ? ) ?

Another question: Once I've added the ninjastar to a unit will it appear as an arrow, now that I've modified the stats?? If not how do I make it appear as an arrow?

[naut]

It should be "NINJ". But I don't know what the animation will be.

[R'as al Ghul]

"NINJ" is correct as Rythmic suggested.

Another question: Once I've added the ninjastar to a unit will it appear as an arrow, now that I've modified the stats?? If not how do I make it appear as an arrow?

It won't appear at all.
Bullets and the ninja star have "0" for the value of "projectile length". That's zero pixels. The description of length "drawing of the projectile" is a bit misleading. It's drawing as in painting not drawing as in loading your bow.

Note that arrows have "25". If you change the length to 25 it should look like the other arrows. That is, if memory still serves me.

[caravel]

Hopefully I will have composite bows working later today. The drawing bit, I had suspected was the length of the object fired, though I wasn't quite sure how the game engine knew which model to use from that? If I replace 0 with 25 will an arrow appear (I have an idea how to change the other stats)?

Edit: In fact, R'as al Ghul, what do you think would be ideal stats for an eastern recurve/compound bow?

[R'as al Ghul]

If I replace 0 with 25 will an arrow appear (I have an idea how to change the other stats)?

Yes, that's what I was trying to say.

Edit: In fact, R'as al Ghul, what do you think would be ideal stats for an eastern recurve/compound bow?

Well I'm by no means an expert on this, but this is what our Samurai Archers are shooting:

shortbow 25 11 5000 150 0.6 0.68 1 1 4 n n n n y -20 57 n NONE NONE n 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 REMOVE REMOVE REMOVE REMOVE REMOVE 0 0 0 0 FLAMING_ARROW n

You have to balance it against the other stats in your mod, though.
You can see all stats from our mod in our subforum. Puzz3D made a topic and it should be stickied.

[Puzz3D]

what do you think would be ideal stats for an eastern recurve/compound bow?

When working on STW/MI v1.02, our archer expert suggested that compound bows would fire arrows that were less lethal but more accurate than a standard bow. It would also have longer range, and Mongols apparently carrier more arrows which they could because the arrows were lighter. As I recall we gave them 50 ammo.

[caravel]

[CBR]

When working on STW/MI v1.02, our archer expert suggested that compound bows would fire arrows that were less lethal but more accurate than a standard bow. It would also have longer range, and Mongols apparently carrier more arrows which they could because the arrows were lighter. As I recall we gave them 50 ammo.

And I'd say improving accuracy while reducing lethality would just make it more difficult to balance. In the end its about overall fire effect (number of kills from x number of arrows) Increasing accuracy doesnt really have any special effect in the game except producing more hits. I dont recall seeing any noticable difference against say loose ordered or moving targets.

Of course bow stats could be used to reflect archers of different skill and strength but apart from that one has to remember that most things comes at a cost: composite bows with light arrows have further range but long range shooting is pretty inaccurate and have less energy for damage and penetration. So I would say you have to increase the AP multiplier as lighter arrows dont penetrate armour as well as heavy arrows at max range. And even a reduction of lethality might be in order too for the same reason.

If one wants one bow to be better then its simpler just to increase lethality as you can control precisely how much better the bow/archers is supposed to be.


CBR

[Puzz3D]

And I'd say improving accuracy while reducing lethality would just make it more difficult to balance. In the end its about overall fire effect (number of kills from x number of arrows) Increasing accuracy doesnt really have any special effect in the game except producing more hits. I dont recall seeing any noticable difference against say loose ordered or moving targets.

No, but higher accuracy would increase the effectiveness against targets the arrow could penetrate while not against targets it couldn't penetrate. It would also make longer range shooting more effective, but might increase short range effectiveness too much. In STW/MI v1.02, there is no lethality parameter. We only had accuracy and power (armor penetration) parameters. That's a good observation about the increased difficulty of balancing, and we never did get this unit, Mongol Light Cavalry, properly balanced in STW/MI v1.02. Even simply giving a unit longer range introduces a difficult balancing problem. Since Mongol Light Cavalry was the fastest cav unit, there was no way to counter it and we ended up having to make the effectiveness of their bow very weak especially since we had given them so much ammo. That's why in Samurai Wars all ranged units have the same open fire range. It's a playbalance consideration.

Of course bow stats could be used to reflect archers of different skill and strength but apart from that one has to remember that most things comes at a cost: composite bows with light arrows have further range but long range shooting is pretty inaccurate and have less energy for damage and penetration. So I would say you have to increase the AP multiplier as lighter arrows dont penetrate armour as well as heavy arrows at max range. And even a reduction of lethality might be in order too for the same reason.

That's a problem with the ballistic model in Total War; projectiles do not loose energy because drag isn't modelled, and inertia isn't modelled either so it doesn't help to give a projectile higher velocity except that it's more likely to hit a moving target. This forces you to make projectiles less effective at long range than they should be so that they don't become overly effective at short range.

If one wants one bow to be better then its simpler just to increase lethality as you can control precisely how much better the bow/archers is supposed to be.

Yes that's true. It has a linear effect on kill rate independent of distance. It's much harder to predict the effect of a change in accuracy.

[CBR]

In STW/MI v1.02, there is no lethality parameter. We only had accuracy and power (armor penetration) parameters.

Ah yes I forgot about the lack of a lethality stat in STW.


CBR