What to do with useless generals?

[Foz]

Frontline duty I would rather have a unit of 40 man hvy cav rather than 20 man hvy cav with 2 hp each, maybe its just a personal preference.

No way! Check it out:

1. Stats. Most bodyguard units (early) have pri attack 13/+8 charge, sec attack 14/+4 charge, and total defense of 16. Most knight units don't come close to touching these numbers.
2. Numbers. Often times general units end up with more than 20 members (don't ask how, but I've seen 23 and 27 at least), meaning they're better than even 40 equivalent troops (b/c they take 2 hits to kill so are essentially 2 soldiers each). You also get the ridiculous benefit of maintaining full combat effectiveness for considerably longer - each man can absorb one hit without ANYTHING happening to the unit's fighting strength. The same cannot be said of a normal cav unit, which begins to fight less capably as soon as 1 man takes a hit. This is especially important when you multiple charge, as you can usually get a second charge with almost the entire company out of a general unit b/c they just shrug off any hits they take as they withdraw.
3. Maneuverability. Due to the smaller unit size, the unit tends to stick together more, can get in harder-to-reach places, and is also considerably easier to withdraw than a similar 40-man cav unit. 40 man units tend to get twisted up in whatever you had them charge into, where the smaller general units do much better at breaking free quickly to charge again.
4. Experience. Due to having 2HP, each man in the unit typically gets far more combat experience than any rider in a 40-man unit does. This makes it much easier to level up the bodyguard unit in my experience.

[kublikhan3]

Give them to me. I would love to have another unit of self-healing, 2 hitpoint, charging machines. Half my generals end up cruely scarred anyway. And if they are disloyal, don't let them lead the army. Make them the patsy of one of your loyal generals.

[Alcorr]

No way! Check it out:

1. Stats. Most bodyguard units (early) have pri attack 13/+8 charge, sec attack 14/+4 charge, and total defense of 16. Most knight units don't come close to touching these numbers.
2. Numbers. Often times general units end up with more than 20 members (don't ask how, but I've seen 23 and 27 at least), meaning they're better than even 40 equivalent troops (b/c they take 2 hits to kill so are essentially 2 soldiers each). You also get the ridiculous benefit of maintaining full combat effectiveness for considerably longer - each man can absorb one hit without ANYTHING happening to the unit's fighting strength. The same cannot be said of a normal cav unit, which begins to fight less capably as soon as 1 man takes a hit. This is especially important when you multiple charge, as you can usually get a second charge with almost the entire company out of a general unit b/c they just shrug off any hits they take as they withdraw.
3. Maneuverability. Due to the smaller unit size, the unit tends to stick together more, can get in harder-to-reach places, and is also considerably easier to withdraw than a similar 40-man cav unit. 40 man units tend to get twisted up in whatever you had them charge into, where the smaller general units do much better at breaking free quickly to charge again.
4. Experience. Due to having 2HP, each man in the unit typically gets far more combat experience than any rider in a 40-man unit does. This makes it much easier to level up the bodyguard unit in my experience.

I have considered these points before, and I still use these insane generals in battle, but I must say I would take a unit of gothic knights over a 20 man gen unit any day. 20 men seems to be my average as some are 16 and some are a good 24...

Those are all true points but im talking about late game where units like gothic knights are actually better in melee (maces) than the general units.

But more importantly, like 90% of damage done on melee is during the charge, a unit with half the men is going to do (in essence) somewhere around half the damage on the charge. Thus twice as many enemy survive...

[snorky]

i had an ugly king

[Garnier]

whenever I have generals I no longer want, I send them alone or with more generals I dont want to die in battle. Sometimes though they win, but thats good anyway.

[Foz]

I have considered these points before, and I still use these insane generals in battle, but I must say I would take a unit of gothic knights over a 20 man gen unit any day. 20 men seems to be my average as some are 16 and some are a good 24...

I have a unit of 33 right now, and almost never see less than 20. Fairly often I see higher though. Does anyone know what controls the size of the general's bodyguard unit?

Those are all true points but im talking about late game where units like gothic knights are actually better in melee (maces) than the general units.

"units like gothic knights..." There aren't any others like them, lol. No other cav unit in the game boasts as high a secondary attack w/ AP stat. The few that have AP mostly have considerably lower attacks, and the ones that don't typically have attacks no better than that of a general unit. Even not considering that, if you are allowing your heavy cavalry to become entangled in melee you are using them incorrectly, so this should not be a concern.

But more importantly, like 90% of damage done on melee is during the charge, a unit with half the men is going to do (in essence) somewhere around half the damage on the charge. Thus twice as many enemy survive...

One would be inclined to think this a valid point, and to some degree it may be. However, when using a larger group of cavalry, it is usual for many of them to miss the charge target - half the unit is in the second row and often ends up not charging into anything, and furthermore the flanks of the front row are often even ineffective as they are boxed out from actually contacting the target unit by the interior men of their own unit. Only about 1/4 of the unit (~10 men) is actually in a good position to connect with a charge, and that's assuming a frontal attack. In side charges, this is even less. The narrow nature of a general's unit gives it an advantage here as well, as the same 10 men in the middle are in great position to charge, it's just that they are higher quality troops now with bigger attack and charge bonuses than most cavalry. If more than 20 men at a time could be reasonably expected to connect with a given charge then your argument would be valid, but as they typically do not, it holds no water.

[todorp]

You must work hard on building of the character of your Generals:

1. Never keep them in cities

2. Leave one or two married to reproduce in a castles

3. Put all the rest in your offensive army to fight. They are wonderful because they self replentish

4. If there is a crusade send half of them and they will become saints. You need the other half in your home land.

[Lord Fluffy]

My insane king has 62 bodyguards right now, his fat prince that had just died had 40. What unit sizes are you guys playing?

[dph948]

I'm pretty sure getting ancillaries adds to the bodyguard size.

[Gingivitis]

I think the "security" stat a general gets provides additional units, but that's just a guess from my observations. Maybe I'll test it when I get home from work.