Elephants in EB

**Sygrod** · 02-12-2007, 01:50

When I first fired up EB a couple of weeks ago, I was dumbfounded by the weight of detail and have marvelled ever since. I started a Qart Hadast campaign, since I loved the murderous elephants in vanilla. At startup there was one elephant unit with 10 beasties in it. I lost 9 in the first battle. When I finally got to the point where I could recruit elephants, I decided against it. Their upkeep is quite high, which is totally in order. The sting I got in my first battle settled the matter. If I am not mistaken, elephants in RTW (and real life too for that matter) hate javelins and spears.

EB is a veritable sea of javelins. There are skirmishers, spearmen, and many units who throw javelins before assault. There is skirmishing cavalry, etc. I can't count how many slingers and archers I have lost to skirmishing units, but it is a high number. Javelin throwers rule the battlefield in this game, and I like the challenge. I am certain, however, that the elephants are not as enthusiastic.

Has anyone had any luck with these creatures in EB?

/Sygrod

**abou** · 02-12-2007, 02:01

They are key for early success as Epeiros as you can quickly blitz Pella and Demetrias with them. You might want to disband them after a while because of the upkeep, but they can put you in a dominant position in Greece early in the game. However, this might change with 0.81 as TK has stated that Makedonia is going to be altered again, but this time with a powerful main army and smaller garrisons (that Korinth garrison is nasty to fight against as KH).

**Sygrod** · 02-12-2007, 03:19

From the absence of replies, I wonder if these interesting creatures are basically only good for the first couple of battles of a campaign and from then on more or less just a liability?

Perhaps the non-missile elephant unit is just too weak for the javelin rich EB environment?

/Sygrod

**Fondor_Yards** · 02-12-2007, 03:26

Note not all javeliens have the anti elephant/chariot bonus. Only the true skirmisher units get it *example, Peltastai and Akontistai get the bonus while Thureophoroi and Thorakitai do not.*

**-Praetor-** · 02-12-2007, 03:32

You just have to be extremely careful to use them.

I for example, always use them against engaged troops, against their backs, supported by cavalry, and preferrably where the greatest concentration of enemy light and medium infantry is fighting...

Their idea is to create mass routs. But I would only use them against engaged and tired enemies (and with poor morale preferrably), who certainly have spended all their javelins.

And you musn`t forget the binomy Elephant-Horse, for you have always to employ them in conjointed with light or medium cavalry. The usefulness of that cavalry is to engage skirmishers and light infantry that may be marauding and supporting the enemy army from behind...

Thus, you open a way for the elephants.

And remember, they are a battle-winning force, you just have to use them very carefully. Remember, they are not melee shock troops!!!!

Cheers

**abou** · 02-12-2007, 03:35

It's hard to say, Sygrod. Used correctly a single unit of elephants can route an entire battle line, but the upkeep cost is so high that I think I would prefer a second wing of cavalry. Even with all the javelins I haven't had a difficult time keeping elephants alive so I don't think that is so much of an issue.

**fatsweets** · 02-12-2007, 06:27

I agree, if used correctly they are fantastic, I always use them to attack from the rear of an already engaged unit and 9 times out of 10 the unit will route almost immediately(only the heaviest and experienced units like triarii do not route within a few seconds). I love the elephants.

**Sygrod** · 02-12-2007, 22:22

Thanks for the replies. So what I glean from your replies is that using elephants as I could in vanilla RTW is not a good idea. New tactics - those you mentioned - have to be used. This is what i wanted to know before actually recruiting a unit. So far, my army compositions are doing quite well. My favoured tactic is to distract enemies with one or two diversionary units to split their army and then use missile units behind an impenetrable wall. or even a square, if necessary.

Do Qart Hadast get elephant archers and armoured elephanst as in vanilla RTW or do they only get the units with one man stearing?

/Sygrod

**HumphreysCraig00** · 02-12-2007, 22:35

Alot of factions get archer elephants.

But in specific terms yes carthage get vanilla war elephant like and elephant cataphract like units.

Though Id advise you to just get war elephants as theres no point I can see to the armoured type as there isnt much benefit to offset the increased cost.

**DeathEmperor** · 02-12-2007, 22:40

Originally Posted by HumphreysCraig00

Though Id advise you to just get war elephants as theres no point I can see to the armoured type as there isnt much benefit to offset the increased cost.

I was wondering about the armoured eles myself. Are they meant to have such similar stats to the unarmoured ones, or is it just a bug or something? I think I asked this a long time ago too, but my memory can be a bit off sometimes so I'd like an answer nonetheless please.

**Teleklos Archelaou** · 02-12-2007, 22:42

Also, just a note: all elephant riders are almost finished. They won't be in 0.81, but there is a lot of variance and a lot of different types. Elephant skins themselves are next up on the list I think, but hopefully we won't have to wait too long before we have some really awesome elephants on the battlefield.

**fatsweets** · 02-12-2007, 22:53

When I was playing an Epeiros campaign a few weeks back, it seemed to me the armoured elephants withstood the javelins better than ones without, but does the better defensive ability make up for the cost?... that is for you to decide. I did much damage and had a lot of enjoyment watching men fly when engaged with my armoured elephants but they are costly and if you need a decisive unit to turn the tide of battle, armoured elephants would be my choice.

**MarcusAureliusAntoninus** · 02-12-2007, 22:59

Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou

Also, just a note: all elephant riders are almost finished. They won't be in 0.81, but there is a lot of variance and a lot of different types. Elephant skins themselves are next up on the list I think, but hopefully we won't have to wait too long before we have some really awesome elephants on the battlefield.

Cool!
Will there be a bunch of different models (Africa v India for example) or just different skins (for the elephants themselves)?

**Sygrod** · 02-13-2007, 00:16

One aspect of Elephants in RTW vanilla that really got my attention was that the three levels of elephants are wildly different in size. you start with baby elephants and the archer war elephants are then noticeably bigger, followed by armoured monsters even larger. I was up against a rebelling town in Spain in vanilla RTW where there was an elephant unit with 4 beasts. Or was it a mastodon unit? These monstrosities made the men around then look like ants. They were absolutely toweringly huge.

/Sygrod