EB Unit Development Art

[Karielle]

Are you a woman Karielle? Must be the first I've seen here. How you doin'?

Doing fine, thanks! And well, yes, I'm female, but I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one around here.

[antiochus epiphanes]

Are you a woman Karielle? Must be the first I've seen here. How you doin'?

Great work Caratacos.

i must be getting old, seems like yesterday abokasee started the bartix thread......





is that still here anyways?

[Bartix Elite Guard]

Does your signature mean you've finalized the EB2 faction list?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

These aren't new units, but they are very nice pics Caratacos did so that we could have some nice signature banners for those factions - and he did such a great job with them that it's a shame you haven't been able to see them at full size.

Just wait till you see the next two sig banner ones at full size!

Roman Legionaire


Spartiate

[Bonny]

i must be getting old, seems like yesterday abokasee started the bartix thread......





is that still here anyways?

Yes, it is

[Caveira]

Awesome. You've inspired me to draw. I don't haves some of the hardware you do, but you know what they say, if you don't have a dog, hunt with a cat. I'm going to try to make a princips. Basing myself on a RTR model, i tried drawing the borders in Paint, but i'm having some difficulty in the right leg and the shield, and I have to idea how to draw the face/boots. Any suggestions? Oh and please don't laugh too much. This is still my first to attempt to draw anything since I am 7 years old or so.

Link

[The Celt]

That's actually a pretty damn good job for someone who hasn't drawn since they were 7.

[keravnos]

That's actually a pretty damn good job for someone who hasn't drawn since they were 7.

Aye!

Back to topic... (And I must say before hand that I mean no offense to anything religious)...

in EB we count time as Before Caratacos Era,
and Caratacos Era.

[Caveira]

lol truth be told, Caratacos does deserve that honour.

[Caratacos]

I'm really pleased to have been able to inspire you to draw again after all these years (though i don't know how many). It is very flattering (and i'd never laugh at anyone's creativity). However beware of tracing other pictures, you'll learn next to nothing by going about it that way. Copying pictures is better (that's how all artists begin) but even then it limits you severely. Illustration is a process after all, and if you don't learn the correct process you'll find it very difficult to progress. For years I would draw good and bad pictures and not know why one was better than the other, just getting lucky every now and then. The truth is there are rules that determine whether a picture is good/appealing/eye-catching. These you must learn-- it takes time and a lot of work.
A good illustration, like anything good, must have foundations and be built up from them. That is you must start from scratch. What it appears you have done is trace directly over another picture. That or draw the linework on a new "page" as it sat next to the original. This isn't starting from scratch. If you start from scratch you'll know exactly what is happening on the page. If you construct his body from a basic "skeleton" of lines and shapes* you'll know exactly what his arm is doing behind that shield or if he is carrying his bodyweight on his heel or the ball of his foot. You'll know which muscles he is tensing and which he is relaxing-- hell you'll even know what his toes are doing in his boots! This is the origin of the problems you have uncovered and are asking me about.
From what I understand you don't own a scanner. A digital camera is a fairly decent substitute. If you don't have that a cell phone camera will do the job (but offer lesser quality). Anyway my advice is picking up a pencil and piece of paper and starting again-- though you probably didn't want to hear that, huh?
Draw the "skeleton" and work out the pose so it looks strong and you are happy with it (leave out all details at this point). Once the pose looks good start fleshing out the body. But it's best to start studying some anatomy at this stage-- that's right, naked people. Life drawing classes help immensely. But perhaps that is too much commitment. You can instead try some tasteful nude photography sites-- NOT porn. It's distracting, and if it's not your computer its owner might not be happy about it-- a nice way to get viruses and the like. And when you look at these pictures you are not looking at breasts and bums but muscle, fat and bone. That is, imagine what is happening under the skin that is making the arm do that (or whatever). Are they putting most of their weight on this limb? And what affect does that have on the muscle (etc.). For learning about the different muscles and how they fit together try medical diagrams-- they are very helpful.

But if you wanna cheap it and finish your picture "as is" that's okay too. I'd search online for a face in a similar position and copy it. As for the leg (you mean "his right", right?) I'd raise it a bit at the knee-- his thigh looks longer than his foreleg which is wrong. I'd also lengthen his left foot-- as at the moment it looks too flat (the perspective doesn't look right).

I hope this helps, Caveira. And keep it up! With a bit of work you'll be fine.

*By lines and shapes i mean an elipse for a head, a line going down from there as his spine to a rectanglular pelvis. The arms and legs are simple lines connected by circles that are the joints (shoulders/elbows/knees) and extremities (hands/feet).

[keravnos]

lol truth be told, Caratacos does deserve that honour.

Indeed. Your post struck a nerve here, as I used to draw and quite well, when I was a kid, and now can't draw to save my life.

I have set my eyes on the below, though, and plan to acquire it at the first opportunity... Maybe I will draw a stickman with a cross for a sword 10 yrs from now...

http://the-structure-of-man.blogspot.com/

[Caveira]

Thank you very much, that helps a lot! And yes I do have a scanner, and I did try drawing in paper and then scanning it, but I found it hard to properly select "areas" using photoshop, so I ended up using MS Paint to replace my "pencil lines" with pure black "pixel lines". In any case, let me thank you one more time for all the suggestions, I'm certainly going to make use of them. I'll later show here what my drawing ended up like.

[Caratacos]

Have this on your computer screen and sit in front with your drawing pad and refer to it as you draw your own version.


Not that this is a "learn to draw" thread but I was feeling nice and decided to sketch this up. My anatomy is a real weak point for me and this sketch contains a few errors but it might help. Note the thumbnail at the top-- do these first so you can "nail" the pose (this one I in fact drew afterwards *tsk! tsk!* just so you could see what my simple skeletons look like). Also note the horizon line and perspective lines. Using them i can the place his feet on the ground as opposed to having him sit in space with his feet hanging no where. So look up 2-point perspective as well. And practice drawing hands and feet on their own (not that I do *tsk! tsk!* again). Once you've given him a face you can then give him clothes, a helmet and anything else you want.

I am still very much an amateur and am learning all the time as I draw. Err that's supposed to be encouragement...

Okay that's the thread hijack over...

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Are you guys ready for the next installment here? We're releasing another image of a unit that Caratacos did for our sig banners and other promotional art, but it isn't a unit development pic. This is just a more detailed version of the little image you see in the Arverni sig banners now.

Arverni Arjos:

[Caveira]

that's what I have to say about the anatomy and gallic warrior screen

As for the naked dude:

OMGWTF? LOL

Edit: How do you draw the chainmail? I'm guessing it's a texture to which you give a 3d effect (with PS?), but I'd like to hear from you. Sorry to be asking so many questions, but you've been very helpful and I like learning new stuff.

[Watchman]

Needs more chest hair.

[abou]

Actually... can we get T-shirts? I think the left over money can go towards paying the cost of the website and maybe an upgrade in hosting if we need more bandwidth.

[Caratacos]

Needs more chest hair.

Actually they shaved all over (apparently)... well not ALL over.

[Watchman]

Drat.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Actually... can we get T-shirts? I think the left over money can go towards paying the cost of the website and maybe an upgrade in hosting if we need more bandwidth.

We have discussed it actually. Some members wished we could use money from it to *only* pay website server costs, but many preferred just making them available directly at cost through a third party website (basically EB would just provide the graphics - that's all), but still others felt any attempt to do anything in this manner would potentially concern CA and we shouldn't risk anything at all.

[Antagonist]

Really excellent artworks, a credit to the mod. My only criticism might be that the Gaesatae fellow's expression looks surprisingly... normal for a naked drug-crazed berserker brandishing a human head.

But perhaps that's just me perpretating barbarian stereotypes.

Keep up the great work.

Antagonist

[Wolfman]

I like the shirt on the left. enough said

[Spoofa]

LOL i dont think the public would appreciate someone wearing a shirt with a naked man holding a head on it....

[The Celt]

LOL i dont think the public would appreciate someone wearing a shirt with a naked man holding a head on it....

Wow thats almost exactly what I said over at TWC. Yeah TA your right any attempt to merchandize EB would bring CA and SEGA down on your heads. I'd maybe wait until you guys are confident enough to make your own game.(The Lordz did it, and they aren't nearly as talented IMHO!)

[Fondor_Yards]

Actually they shaved all over (apparently)... well not ALL over.

Doesn't one of the celtic baths buildings say they burned all their body hair off with some special soap? *Which would stink everything all to hell I assume*

Needs more chest hair.

Well he's got plenty down south, he can just transfer some up north.

[keravnos]

Wow thats almost exactly what I said over at TWC. Yeah TA your right any attempt to merchandize EB would bring CA and SEGA down on your heads. I'd maybe wait until you guys are confident enough to make your own game.(The Lordz did it, and they aren't nearly as talented IMHO!)

We are NOT The Lordz and we will NEVER be. We are here because we love a good pc game, and historical authenticity first and foremost. EB's goal is to combine that. What Dave showed was for us members only. This is an all-volunteer effor to fix things we believe needed fixing on RTW, in an area that CA simply can't afford to spend that much time/research on. We, on the other hand can, and do.

Think of it this way. CA makes the next best thing, gives us this big huge sandbox to play in, whereas we on the other hand spend a couple of year, and even more and ACCORDING TO OUR OWN VISION, fix what we perceive were faults, and expand it where we consider it should be expanded. Then we go on the newer, better game, and CA can keep on perfecting the next TW franchise title etc.

It is a win, win, win situation. You all get a very good mod of a CA game, We get that sandbox full of opportunities and such-not to mention working on a game we all dreamt of playing, and CA gets the money from increased sales of RTW-M2TW and assorted mechandise. A perfect symbiosis if you ask me. Yet it can change. If people perceive that "THE LORDZ" path is the way to go, CA can very simply make a patch that makes modding its games impossible. Then we all lose as none of the "win,win,win" conditions apply. Let's not go down that road. We are perfectly happy as we are now.

Oh, and one other thing. I really hate it when people start bashing CA. I honestly do. We have a saying on my country, which goes something like..."Don't piss on the pool of drinking water". You can complain on it as long as you want, but ... don't piss on it.

[Watchman]

Well he's got plenty down south, he can just transfer some up north.

What, glue it on or something ?

[alatar]

We are NOT The Lordz and we will NEVER be. We are here because we love a good pc game, and historical authenticity first and foremost. EB's goal is to combine that. What Dave showed was for us members only. This is an all-volunteer effor to fix things we believe needed fixing on RTW, in an area that CA simply can't afford to spend that much time/research on. We, on the other hand can, and do.

Think of it this way. CA makes the next best thing, gives us this big huge sandbox to play in, whereas we on the other hand spend a couple of year, and even more and ACCORDING TO OUR OWN VISION, fix what we perceive were faults, and expand it where we consider it should be expanded. Then we go on the newer, better game, and CA can keep on perfecting the next TW franchise title etc.

It is a win, win, win situation. You all get a very good mod of a CA game, We get that sandbox full of opportunities and such-not to mention working on a game we all dreamt of playing, and CA gets the money from increased sales of RTW-M2TW and assorted mechandise. A perfect symbiosis if you ask me. Yet it can change. If people perceive that "THE LORDZ" path is the way to go, CA can very simply make a patch that makes modding its games impossible. Then we all lose as none of the "win,win,win" conditions apply. Let's not go down that road. We are perfectly happy as we are now.

Oh, and one other thing. I really hate it when people start bashing CA. I honestly do. We have a saying on my country, which goes something like..."Don't piss on the pool of drinking water". You can complain on it as long as you want, but ... don't piss on it.

Great post. CA even said the same things in there press release on the m2tw expansion.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Oh, I will say this - if anyone really is incredibly interested, I can just post graphics here for them to use or put on their own shirts or whatever. That takes it out of our hands entirely. As long as no site others can use is made. Pretty much any of the art by caratacos is fair game. I might not be able to do it immediately, but I'll get around to it if people really want one of them posted. There are plenty of sites on the 'net where you can just plug in a graphic and give your paypal number and they will send you a tshirt or sweatshirt or whatever.

These are the ones I had done so far:

[Caveira]

I like the idea, but please remove the "Europa barbarorum" text. That's way too nerdish.