To: tolerance, understanding and democracy: please return to sender

[Rameusb5]

LOL... It's amazing how people get so offended by that clip. On another forum people were just freaking out about it.

Personally, I think the guys on the show (and I'm a big fan of Top Gear despite the fact that I can't watch it) were just having a bit of fun and didn't realize what violent reaction they'd get. Yeah, they SAID that they'd expect a violent reaction, but saying it and believing it are two different things.

It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that they got the reaction that they did. Most of the people "of that type" (figure that one out for yourselves) do NOT respond well to criticism and do NOT like to be laughed at.

And guess what, that's EXACTLY what the boys from TG were doing to them.

In short, they underestimated the total lack of humor that we Americans have. Sure, we like to laugh, but only at OTHERS. Not ourselves...


PS- I grew up in a small "hick" town. This is pretty much EXACTLY how I'd expect it to go down.

[Rameusb5]

Double post-

Don, aren't you projecting the EXACT same stereotypes by saying that Europeans all feel superior to Americans?

[Don Corleone]

I didn't say all. But I do see a pretty common thread. I'm not getting violent.

Humor that makes no sense isn't funny. In every act of humor, there are underlying preconceptions that are spoken to, and those preconceptions may be accurate or inaccurate. Italians do tend to drive rather aggressively. Scandanavians do tend to be rather stand-offish, at least compared to the rest of Europe. Think of every ethnic joke you've ever heard. Then think about the stereotypes you associate with the people that are the butt of those jokes. The jokes are funny because they play off those stereotypes.

Europeans can go around making jokes about how stupid, ignorant and benighted Americans are, and say they're just jokes. But at some point, you must truly hold this view of us in your group psyche, or the humor would be lost, the joke would be a non-sequitir. As you all get the humor, clearly I must be at least tangentially correct on this. At some level, you do think we're barbarians over here.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

rant away Don , but don't you think this..... ......is an incredibly stupid statement ?

If he had meant it in the literalist "there have been zero incidents of such an occurrence in the United States throughout its history" sense, possibly.

However, since you are well aware that he was hyperbolizing to make his counter-point (i.e. that anti-semitism is far less of an issue in the USA than it has been -- at least historically -- in Europe and that Europe sneering at Americans was a bit of the old pot/kettle thing) your assessment is a bit harsh.

Don, I don't find it too surprising that Euros laugh at this stereotypical representation.

We have far too many of our own people who hear a southern accent and associate it with a Gomer Pyle-style intellect. Urbies are always confident of the in-bred stupidity of the rurals, that stereotype has a long history. Heavens, The Romans named an entire rural Italian province Bruttium.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

They designed it to provoke but to be honest guys throwing rocks and "getting the boys" is, I think far more than they expected. They did try to explain it was a joke, and to be honest the really funny thing would have been if nothing happened.

Which might well have been what they were expecting.

As to the whole football thing. We have a saying.

"Don't talk about religion, politics, or football."

I think though that if you went to Cornwall with a St. George's Cross Flag and a slogan saying, "All Cornish are pointy-heads" you'd be ignored.

The Catholic-Protestant thing is a bad comparison, considering we've only recently wound up a religious war.

[Tribesman]

I don't, but I'm not surprised to see you jump on this particular bandwagon.

interesting , so you don't see that line I quoted as being an incredibly stupid example to use
So you follow with ......

The fact is, about every 4 or 5 months, there's some act of anti-semitism or the like over in Europe (desecrated Jewish cemetaries are just one example).

The fact is jewish cemetaries get desecrated over there too . One in particular springs to mind , smashed up headstones and daubed with nazi graffiti 7 times in one year .
Then again if you think that anti semetic violence , vandalism or other general nasty stuff happens about every 4-5 months in Europe then you don't read any the annual reports on anti-semitism that lots of different groups compile about Europe , or the ones about the US .

Anyhow , what is this "particular bandwagon" that I am jumping on ?

[Don Corleone]

interesting , so you don't see that line I quoted as being an incredibly stupid example to use
So you follow with ......
The fact is jewish cemetaries get desecrated over there too . One in particular springs to mind , smashed up headstones and daubed with nazi graffiti 7 times in one year .
Then again if you think that anti semetic violence , vandalism or other general nasty stuff happens about every 4-5 months in Europe then you don't read any the annual reports on anti-semitism that lots of different groups compile about Europe , or the ones about the US .

No, in fact I don't read a lot of reports. I simply know that periodically, CNN or MSNBC or God forbid, FoxNews has a story on about some act of anti-semitism in Europe. They appear to come about every 4 to 5 months, but if you say it's less frequent than that, I'll allow you that. Despite what Neo-cons over here would have you believe, my layman's perspective is that this is approximately the same rate as acts of bigotry against Jews here in the US.

Yes, America has similar attacks. You must have missed where I said just that in the post I addressed to you. Please, allow me:

The fact is, about every 4 or 5 months, there's some act of anti-semitism or the like over in Europe (desecrated Jewish cemetaries are just one example). I don't think you're any worse off than we are. God knows we have plenty of bigots over here. But I don't think you're any better, either, and if I can challenge your pre-conceived notion that you are, I will.

To me, it sounds like I'm saying I view us on roughly compatible terms when it comes to bigotry and acts of violence. Interesting that you overlooked that. Or is that you don't like being lumped in with your trashy cousins across the pond?

[The_Doctor]

One question:
Why are you talking about Europe when this is a British program?

Also I believe they where making fun of rural southerns, not all Americans. I do not believe those slogans would have the same effect in say, New England, or West of the USA.

[Tribesman]

They appear to come about every 4 to 5 months, but if you say it's less frequent than that, I'll allow you that.

Ah I see , you misunderstand .
Now rewrite that bit I quoted and change the word less to more .

[InsaneApache]

hehe...nice discussion guys.

I know that you have travelled Don (or whatever your name is this week ) but the fact remains that citizens of the USA, as a general principle, do not.

That's why 'Mericans are percieved as un-worldly. The Europeans need only travel for a couple of hours and could cross several national frontiers in the time it takes you to drive upstate.

If you stay in your homeland then you get a skewed perception of the outside world. Not everyone, but enough to make a difference.

[Don Corleone]

Ah I see , you misunderstand .
Now rewrite that bit I quoted and change the word less to more .

I bet you're a real joy at parties.

Okay, perhaps incidents of bigotry occur more frequently than every four to 5 months. They may happen less. Did you miss the part where I said this is an informal survey and that the barometer I'm using is how many times it gets conveyed to my conciousness over my morning coffee & Cheerios? Translation: I'm not running around keeping statistics on these things. My only point is that based on my informal viewing habits of major American media, incidents of violence/bigotry in Europe appear to be on par with the USA. Not more, not less.

And I would like you to stop and consider something. I will allow that the American news media tends to be incredibly America-centric. So do you really think every act around Europe you hear of is going to be played out on CNN? We hear of a subset of the more eggregious crimes, such as the Holocaust memorial in Germany (or was it Poland, I cannot remember).

In any case, I've clearly touched a nerve here. So to my European friends, I apologize and I politely withdraw my objection. You're right, we are every bit as crude, ignorant and uncivilized as you believe us to be. Now, let's drop this and get on with laughing at how dumb we Americans are, shall we?

[Don Corleone]

Ooops, double-post.

[Don Corleone]

One question:
Why are you talking about Europe when this is a British program?

Also I believe they where making fun of rural southerns, not all Americans. I do not believe those slogans would have the same effect in say, New England, or West of the USA.

Aaaah, I understand now, Doctor. Thank you for clairfying. So because I was born in Boston, I'm actually not intended as the butt of these sorts of jokes. But my wife and my daughter, having been born in North Carolina, well, we know all about them, right? Thank you for clarifying.

[Pannonian]

One question:
Why are you talking about Europe when this is a British program?

Also I believe they where making fun of rural southerns, not all Americans. I do not believe those slogans would have the same effect in say, New England, or West of the USA.

Don should hear some of the songs sung by football supporters against those of rival clubs.

To Ipswich Town, Norwich City, or any other clubs of perceivedly "hick" regions.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Oi can droive a tractorr
Oi can't read and Oi can't wroite but it doesn't really matterr
'Cos Oi'm a Norwich City fan and Oi can droive a tractorr

My father is my mother
To the tune of The Addams family
My father is my mother, my sister is my brother
'Cos we all shag each other - it's the Norwich family

To Liverpool, or any other cities with chronic unemployment problems. Liverpool especially as their pet song is "You'll Never Walk Alone".

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You'll Never Get A Job
To the tune of You'll Never Walk Alone
Sign on, sign on
With a pen in your hand
And you'll never get a job
You'll never get a job

Sign on, sign on...

To Australians

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Convict colony
To the tune of Yellow Submarine
In the town where I was born, lived a man who was a thief
And he told me of his life, stealing bread and shagging sheep
So they sent him in the nick, and a magistrate he went to see
He said, send him on a ship to the convict colony

Pointing at Australian fans or players
You all live in a convict colony, convict colony, convict colony...

[InsaneApache]

Aaaah, I understand now, Doctor. Thank you for clairfying. So because I was born in Boston, I'm actually not intended as the butt of these sorts of jokes. But my wife and my daughter, having been born in North Carolina, well, we know all about them, right? Thank you for clarifying.

Is this breaking news? Are you saying that the UK, a proud and soveriegn nation is now under the heel of the Europeans?

Shhh don't tell anyone

[Blodrast]

I think that quite a bit of the pretty strong reactions to this comes from the fact that some of you guys are not familiar with Top Gear. Driving cars, and making fun, is what the show is all about. They don't discriminate: they make fun of the French and their cars, of central/east European cars and car-makers, of everybody who has anything to do with cars.
They also praise stuff, not just diss it.

Try to watch a few random episodes, and then, when you have an idea what the show is about, then, if you still feel you're entitled to be offended and all that, be my guest.
Lighten up, guys.

[Papewaio]

Europeans can go around making jokes about how stupid, ignorant and benighted Americans are, and say they're just jokes. But at some point, you must truly hold this view of us in your group psyche, or the humor would be lost, the joke would be a non-sequitir. As you all get the humor, clearly I must be at least tangentially correct on this. At some level, you do think we're barbarians over here.

Of course I have never ever seen, heard, read a post, article, movie made by Americans for Americans that makes fun of hill billies, even the ones that live in Beverly Hills...

[Strike For The South]

I for one am not offended because I have straight teeth.

[TevashSzat]

I must point out now the link to the video shows that youtube has terminated the video due to its violation of the terms of use violation. I smell censorship here

[Louis VI the Fat]

I for one am not offended because I have straight teeth.

Oh my God, I know I'm alone in this judgement, but really: Strike is the smartest guy on this board.

[Strike For The South]

Oh my God, I know I'm alone in this judgement, but really: Strike is the smartest guy on this board.

No I think so too

[Justiciar]

*Prods the Americans with a stick*

I hear they eat their young..

[Tuuvi]

yep...It's true. Ever tried roast baby rump? It's good. Nice and tender, almost like veal, only better.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I must point out now the link to the video shows that youtube has terminated the video due to its violation of the terms of use violation. I smell censorship here

Or possible copyright protection

[KukriKhan]

To try and salvage some good from this thread...

Isn't the "joke" (the underlying assumption) of the video that tribalists - sometimes known as "hicks, fundies, brutes, rurals", and so on, by their voluntary or involuntary isolation from the broader national or global society of humans, are unsophisticated in speech and comprehension, prone to perceived insult, easily incited to violence, et cetera, et cetera?

Or is the joke simply "my tribe (of sophisticated, urban, hip members) is superior to your (dull, violent, incompetent) tribe?

Either way, the joke is older than neanderthal v h.sapiens, no? But it still strikes a primitive humor chord in our psyches, this millenia later (unless it's our tribe being skewered).

Conclusion: it must be a necessary "itch" requiring scratching periodically, given its frequent appearance - as noted by most posters here.

Any other opinions?

[Redleg]

Conclusion: it must be a necessary "itch" requiring scratching periodically, given its frequent appearance - as noted by most posters here.

Any other opinions?

Didn't see the video - it was pulled from the site when I went to view it.

However such humor is as old as it comes. Given that I find british humor to be funny at times and at other times just stupid - I can't see any major problem with having an episode that bashes my southern upbringing. Hell I at times make crude redneck references about my own family.

I would image from some of the comments in the thread that it borders on the stupid humor that I normally just turn off.

[Fisherking]

ROFLMAO!

When dealing with the lowest common denominator of human nature, (i.e. trying to pick a fight & being surprised it worked) only shows the supreme stupidity of the one initiating the process.

You can start a fight anywhere you look hard enough. The fact that they had to go so far from home only shows their own idiocy (or the wish to pretend it doesn't happen at home).

I knew people in the army who thought it was great sport to go to the Brits on the Queen's Birthday and slander her in order to start a fight with them. It always worked…big surprise there.

The clip was funny, but it was more laughing at them than the reaction they got. Go insult a football team or anything equally dumb in any drinking establishment on any continent and see what happens.

There are equally stupid you can do in Europe to get beaten up or killed and maybe the police would help. Dress as the Pope and spend the day in Derry, or Dress as *that H guy from the 30s & 40s* and go for a walk in Munich…lots of possibilities there!

In the end, WHO CARES!

[Prodigal]

If its any consolation, Clarkson is disparaging about everything outside England, the only time he says anything positive about things "foreign" is when its a good car.

The people on the show have one overriding dislike, which is something of a theme, & its caravans. If someone could find a clip of when they went camping that may help anyone upset about the US show get a better perspective on them.

Found it, or at least a bit of it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viRKiLPCElM

[The_Doctor]

Aaaah, I understand now, Doctor. Thank you for clairfying. So because I was born in Boston, I'm actually not intended as the butt of these sorts of jokes. But my wife and my daughter, having been born in North Carolina, well, we know all about them, right? Thank you for clarifying.

Your welcome.

[BDC]

These jokes were aimed at Alabama, not America as a whole.

Besides the funniest bit was Clarkson with his shower in the car thing.