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    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Red face Do Not Read This Thread

    You have been warned. Cases like this one really make me despair for my species. I guess I'm extra-sensitive since I have little lemurs. Ugh. First the Natascha Kapusch case, and now this? Not a good time to be a young lady in Austria.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    February 12, 2007

    Mother kept girls locked away from the world for seven years

    Bojan Pancevski in Vienna

    Three girls who were imprisoned by their mother in a house of indescribable filth for seven years may never recover from the ordeal, experts said last night.

    The girls were shut away from the outside world, existing in almost complete darkness, playing only with mice and communicating in their own language.

    When they were discovered, their home in a smart, upper middle-class suburb had no running water and was filled with waste and excrement a metre high. The floor was corroded by mice urine.

    The case has stunned Austria, still reeling from the Natascha Kampusch kidnapping, and the authorities were struggling last night to explain how such a horror story could have gone unnoticed.

    The girls’ ordeal was apparently sparked by their parents’ divorce, after which their mother, a 53-year-old lawyer, suffered a breakdown. But she won custody of the girls — then aged 7, 11 and 13 — and withdrew them from school, claiming that she would give them private tuition at home.

    Her husband, a local judge in Linz, Upper Austria, named only as Andreas M, was not allowed to see them once, despite his claims for access reaching court nine times.

    The girls, Viktoria, Katharina and Elisabeth, were rescued only when police broke into the house after a neighbour, who had reported his suspicions several times, threatened a local council official with a lawsuit.

    Although that was in October 2005, and the three have been in a specialised therapy centre since, the scandal was only revealed at the weekend.

    The mother is now being held in a special remand prison branch for the mentally unstable. She will appear in court in a few weeks on charges of grievous bodily harm and torture, and is facing between five months and five years in prison.

    She had ensured that the blinds were constantly shut, and that all but one light bulb had been removed in the house. When they were released, the three victims had white skin and could not endure exposure to natural light.

    Authorities are now under fire for failing to have intervened sooner, despite repeated complaints by neighbours in the well-to-do Poestlingberg.

    The mother was said to have been summoned to court nine times during the seven years after complaints by the father and neighbours, but officials never found a reason to investigate the case more closely.

    Waltraud Kubelka, a therapist who is now treating the three girls, said that their psycho-social and physical development was “catastrophic”.

    “The oldest one is doing very badly and has no prospects of recovery. She was severely undernourished and practically anorexic after her release. The two younger ones will need years to come to terms with their horrific childhood.

    “In the first weeks after their release they were hiding under a bench in the kitchen [in the therapy centre] because that was the darkest spot. They could not endure light . . . they had not felt sunlight or fresh air for years.”

    It is believed that the children had contact only with their mother during the seven years of captivity and, as a consequence, developed an almost unintelligible language of their own, described as a “singing-like” form of German.

    Even after a year of therapy the oldest daughter, Elisabeth, now 21, is said to be so disturbed that she stands only on one foot for long periods staring at the floor. She often bursts into tears.

    She and her two sisters also reportedly finish all sentences with the word “but”.

    But according to her carers, the youngest of the three, Viktoria, could soon be discharged from therapy to join her father, who now is in constant contact with his daughters.

    A council official said that authorities had had no knowledge of the “truly catastrophic” conditions.

    The mother’s legal training and knowledge of the law has reportedly enabled her to postpone the trial. The case will he heard in front of a court in Klagenfurt in the next weeks, as both she and her husband are well known in the legal community of Linz.

    Natascha Kampusch was held for eight years by Wolf-gang Priklopil, before escaping. Priklopil snatched her on her way to school when she was ten and kept her captive in a subterranean dungeon under his house near Vienna for eight years.

    Professor Max Friedrich, a child psychiatrist who treated Ms Kampusch, said that the two cases should not be compared.

    “This is entirely different, when the mother herself is the captor. It is tragic that the one person that commands full trust is misguided in that way. I do not envy their therapists.”

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    In the shadows... Member Vuk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do Not Read This Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    You have been warned. Cases like this one really make me despair for my species. I guess I'm extra-sensitive since I have little lemurs. Ugh. First the Natascha Kapusch case, and now this? Not a good time to be a young lady in Austria.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    February 12, 2007

    Mother kept girls locked away from the world for seven years

    Bojan Pancevski in Vienna

    Three girls who were imprisoned by their mother in a house of indescribable filth for seven years may never recover from the ordeal, experts said last night.

    The girls were shut away from the outside world, existing in almost complete darkness, playing only with mice and communicating in their own language.

    When they were discovered, their home in a smart, upper middle-class suburb had no running water and was filled with waste and excrement a metre high. The floor was corroded by mice urine.

    The case has stunned Austria, still reeling from the Natascha Kampusch kidnapping, and the authorities were struggling last night to explain how such a horror story could have gone unnoticed.

    The girls’ ordeal was apparently sparked by their parents’ divorce, after which their mother, a 53-year-old lawyer, suffered a breakdown. But she won custody of the girls — then aged 7, 11 and 13 — and withdrew them from school, claiming that she would give them private tuition at home.

    Her husband, a local judge in Linz, Upper Austria, named only as Andreas M, was not allowed to see them once, despite his claims for access reaching court nine times.

    The girls, Viktoria, Katharina and Elisabeth, were rescued only when police broke into the house after a neighbour, who had reported his suspicions several times, threatened a local council official with a lawsuit.

    Although that was in October 2005, and the three have been in a specialised therapy centre since, the scandal was only revealed at the weekend.

    The mother is now being held in a special remand prison branch for the mentally unstable. She will appear in court in a few weeks on charges of grievous bodily harm and torture, and is facing between five months and five years in prison.

    She had ensured that the blinds were constantly shut, and that all but one light bulb had been removed in the house. When they were released, the three victims had white skin and could not endure exposure to natural light.

    Authorities are now under fire for failing to have intervened sooner, despite repeated complaints by neighbours in the well-to-do Poestlingberg.

    The mother was said to have been summoned to court nine times during the seven years after complaints by the father and neighbours, but officials never found a reason to investigate the case more closely.

    Waltraud Kubelka, a therapist who is now treating the three girls, said that their psycho-social and physical development was “catastrophic”.

    “The oldest one is doing very badly and has no prospects of recovery. She was severely undernourished and practically anorexic after her release. The two younger ones will need years to come to terms with their horrific childhood.

    “In the first weeks after their release they were hiding under a bench in the kitchen [in the therapy centre] because that was the darkest spot. They could not endure light . . . they had not felt sunlight or fresh air for years.”

    It is believed that the children had contact only with their mother during the seven years of captivity and, as a consequence, developed an almost unintelligible language of their own, described as a “singing-like” form of German.

    Even after a year of therapy the oldest daughter, Elisabeth, now 21, is said to be so disturbed that she stands only on one foot for long periods staring at the floor. She often bursts into tears.

    She and her two sisters also reportedly finish all sentences with the word “but”.

    But according to her carers, the youngest of the three, Viktoria, could soon be discharged from therapy to join her father, who now is in constant contact with his daughters.

    A council official said that authorities had had no knowledge of the “truly catastrophic” conditions.

    The mother’s legal training and knowledge of the law has reportedly enabled her to postpone the trial. The case will he heard in front of a court in Klagenfurt in the next weeks, as both she and her husband are well known in the legal community of Linz.

    Natascha Kampusch was held for eight years by Wolf-gang Priklopil, before escaping. Priklopil snatched her on her way to school when she was ten and kept her captive in a subterranean dungeon under his house near Vienna for eight years.

    Professor Max Friedrich, a child psychiatrist who treated Ms Kampusch, said that the two cases should not be compared.

    “This is entirely different, when the mother herself is the captor. It is tragic that the one person that commands full trust is misguided in that way. I do not envy their therapists.”
    Gotta love divorce...and child custody laws. I don't care what excuse that mother can offer, she should be put down promptly.
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    Στωικισμός Member Bijo's Avatar
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    Default Re : Do Not Read This Thread

    'tis bad. I wonder what punishment she'll exactly get, and if those children will recover properly. The eldest especially has less chance, it seems.


    On another note, I'm curious as to what "kind of language" they exactly spoke when they invented one themselves. Some kids who get abused, etc., might still speak their native language, but when it's so bad that they even have an own language...? Damn.
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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do Not Read This Thread

    Oh Lord...

    How terrible.

    Crazed Rabbit
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    Red face Re: Do Not Read This Thread

    Equality of genders, eh? Father repeatedly wants to see his own kids, and he can't. Sounds like an upper middle class person.

    Mother of course gets custody an no one would dare interfere with her wishes...

    If she's mentally ill without insight then I'd spare her execution. Else we could all do with the extra oxygen.

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    Default Re: Do Not Read This Thread

    She will appear in court in a few weeks on charges of grievous bodily harm and torture, and is facing between five months and five years in prison.
    If they're actually trying her as a sane adult, this seems like a crazily short sentence.
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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do Not Read This Thread

    This is a horrible, horrible tale. I feel terribly for these 3 children.
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    Senior Member Senior Member Yeti Sports 1.5 Champion, Snowboard Slalom Champion, Monkey Jump Champion, Mosquito Kill Champion Csargo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do Not Read This Thread

    Truely messed up. I feel really sorry for those girls.
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    Come to daddy Member Geoffrey S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do Not Read This Thread

    This is too horrific for words. Three lives utterly destroyed, this article made me feel physically sick.
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    In the shadows... Member Vuk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do Not Read This Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
    Equality of genders, eh? Father repeatedly wants to see his own kids, and he can't. Sounds like an upper middle class person.

    Mother of course gets custody an no one would dare interfere with her wishes...

    If she's mentally ill without insight then I'd spare her execution. Else we could all do with the extra oxygen.

    There must have been signs of her mental state. Giving her rights was absurd.
    As for her execution, you can not decide to let go when you have people dependent on you. She sounds like a sadistic...I'm not sure if I'd be allowed to say the word...
    She should definately get it in my opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
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    Liar and Trickster Senior Member Andres's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do Not Read This Thread

    Oh my...

    This has left me speechless.

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    Moderator Moderator Gregoshi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do Not Read This Thread

    I am so shocked on several levels that I don't even know what to say to this nightmare.
    This space intentionally left blank

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    Default Re: Do Not Read This Thread

    Somehow Navaros isn't here to argue God's cause...

    Damn. People kill people. She should be put down.

    It is even worse when it is people like lawyers, doctors, and other responsible professions who do this kind of madness. They are the ones people depend on.

    I can't even imagine this woman sleeping soundly at night....
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    Philologist Senior Member ajaxfetish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do Not Read This Thread

    This sounds like a case of horrific action by an individual (the mother) combined with a societal failure of inaction and unthinking trust in traditional processes (giving the children entirely to their mother and ignoring all the warnings from the father and neighbors). The first, while more shocking than the second, is something we can do little about, at least in a preventative sense. The second may need some rethinking on our part.

    Hopefully we can find ways to make such tragedies less likely to happen, hopefully the girls are able to achieve some sort of rewarding life from this point forward, and thank God they are back with a parent who, as far as we can know, loves and cares deeply for them.

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    Default Re: Do Not Read This Thread

    Claiming temporary insanity shouldn't fly in this case. As a lawyer, she knew how to manipulate the system to avoid timely judicial review, denying her husband his parental rights, and prolonging the abuse of these children. She can't credibly claim that her mental state caused her not to know her actions were wrong, not when she was obviously trying to hide this. The State system failed these children and their father. This case had better generate some change in the laws. She deserves a life sentence for what she has done. The enablers deserve to be fired and banned from any employment in their field ever again.
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    Default Re: Do Not Read This Thread

    People still can disgust me and horrify me: I'm not such a calloused ass after all.
    I joke but I am speechless for something with real meaning.

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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do Not Read This Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
    Equality of genders, eh? Father repeatedly wants to see his own kids, and he can't. Sounds like an upper middle class person.

    Mother of course gets custody an no one would dare interfere with her wishes...
    Sadly, this seems to be the case. In seven years, he didn't get to see his children.

    I think an appropriate punishment would be making her spend the rest of her days as she made her kids live - though I'd imagine there's some laws against that.

    Crazed Rabbit
    Last edited by Crazed Rabbit; 02-13-2007 at 01:09.
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    (Insert innuendo here) Member Balloon Bomber Champion DemonArchangel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do Not Read This Thread

    And we got rid of public flogging WHY?
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    Default Re: Do Not Read This Thread

    Dumbfounded.

    I will say this though. If I was their father......[I dare not say the rest.]
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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do Not Read This Thread

    Whats the British term? At Her Majesties Pleasure?

    Very sad for the children.
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    American since 2012 Senior Member AntiochusIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do Not Read This Thread

    It takes a lot to subdue a thirteen years old and abuse her continuously to the point of losing language and even severe disorders in all her abilities to survive. The mother must have been so assertive and abusive to the point of extremity: no mercy for her is warranted whatsoever. She is by all accounts a danger to society; smart enough to be a lawyer, disturbed, twisted enough to destroy the lives of her own children and use her vocation to prevent any attempt from the father to even communicate with his daughter and perhaps ensure a more acceptable existence for his own offsprings.

    The blame lies almost entirely on her shoulders. Even if those children were to be thrown right into the middle of a 19th century Paris they'd have a better chance of growing up surviving and functioning on their own.

    But to discard the authorities from blame is to make another mistake. Child custody laws and cases are far, far too biased for the women to the point of absurdity. Fathers often have to pay more than half their paycheck to the women with limited-to-no opportunity to communicate with their own offsprings. And the authorities' inaction despite continuous protests from various parties has been one of the main reasons that the catastrophe has been prolonged to such an irrevocable point.

    Three lives destroyed there out of sheer neglect. I hope there will be repercussions and force for reform after this, and that some here in the USA take the case into consideration: with our own divorce rates (what an absurdity: it makes me rather sick whenever I hear a teenage girl talking about marriage, in fact, when I think that probably more than half of them, if committed, would soon enter divorce...) the probability for these kinds of cases increase dramatically.

    Even then, I must say I'm interested in the scientific aspect of how the children managed to create their own language, the process they somehow learned it, and if the mother actually knows the language or not, etc. In fact, if I am to make a blind jump -- and it is a blind jump; I never heard the "form of singing-like German" in question -- I'd suspect it's even influenced by the sound of mice, which makes it even more horrific.

    I'd hate to be a father.
    Last edited by AntiochusIII; 02-13-2007 at 02:26.

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    The Usual Member Ice's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do Not Read This Thread

    I hope this women gets life in prison at the very least. She deserves execution for what she did to these three girls. I can't even pretend to imagine what that was like.



  23. #23

    Default Re: Do Not Read This Thread

    ...was filled with waste and excrement a metre high.
    That's...that's a lot of poop.

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    Default Re: Do Not Read This Thread

    By coincidence, a TV program on "wild children" was just on. It showed the case of Genie, a girl who was given similar treatment. I also saw a program on her in a High School psychology class. Apparently, if language is not learned at a young enough age, development becomes very limited and the child cannot hope to progress past a certain point.
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    Member Member Alexander the Pretty Good's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do Not Read This Thread

    I'm most surprised that the neighbor had to threaten legal action to get them to check out the place. Around here in the US, I thought they'd normally respond faster to such suspicions, and have a friendly look around at least.

  26. #26
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do Not Read This Thread

    Is there something in the water in Austria? Nuts.

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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do Not Read This Thread

    While still quite shocking, the case of Natasha Kampusch sounds almost like a fairy-tale in comparison to this. It's so disgusting, I have problems not to think of any physical harm done to that "mother"...


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    Dragonslayer Emeritus Senior Member Sigurd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do Not Read This Thread

    What the hell is wrong with people...
    I have two girls...

    I don't know.. If I were in that father's shoes; No way I would have let this go on for SEVEN years.
    If I even suspected some harm being done to my girls, those doors would have been broken down in a heart beat.

    SEVEN years!!!! Come on Austria, wake up!!!
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  29. #29
    Senior Member Senior Member English assassin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do Not Read This Thread

    One of the things that most depresses me about these sorts of stories is how many more similar stories there may be that never come to light. If not now, then in past years. There's a lot of misery in the world.

    Also, I really don't understand how these sorts of things are still possible? I can live, I suppose, with social services not being able to spot many forms of abuse, at least for a period, but really, what was it about this case that made it so hard to pick up?

    It seems to me than many of our systems are profoundly misdesigned, or misapplied, and spend most of their time endlessly investigating (you might go so far as harassing people for pretty minor transgressions, where the really huge cases simply go unchecked.

    And then in the past there is the fact that it would have been much harder to do this, since neighbours, family, and that whole community thing would have been a check. The state does seem to be a poor substitute. Damn, at this rate I'm going to turn into a social conservative.
    "The only thing I've gotten out of this thread is that Navaros is claiming that Satan gave Man meat. Awesome." Gorebag

  30. #30
    Friend of Lady Luck Member Mooks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do Not Read This Thread

    I wish I wouldve followed your advice and not read this thread.
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    i love the idea that angsty-teens can get so spazzed out by computer games that they try to rage-rape themselves with a remote.

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