The magical woods of East Saxe

[Caerfanan]

Here it is. I didn't know where to post that one, and didn't intend to trouble other topics. But what happenned to me was so funny that I have to write it down somewhere. Hence the new topic.

So I did a post about a very big defensive battle against a overwhelming army of mercians against my scots; I lost the battle in the last wave of enemy reinforcements or so. Afterwards I won a battle, could retaliate a bit and the Mercians crumbled.

But in every battle I played, he always sent every single unit to fight.

That was my last game on normal level, and I switched to hard, and took the faction with which I can tease my scandinavian girlfriend: the vikings.

I try my "normal start", and things go pretty well. I take East Engle, East Saxe, South Saxe, and Cantware. Money being short almost immediatly, I raid all the Northumbrian provinces (abbeys....good...), then withdraw my fleets to have no border with them. Autoceasefire

I accept alliances then with mercians, saxons and northumbrians (!!!). All the huscarles prodicing factions are allied!

I decide then to take the Isle of Man. No problem.

Crazy: I am making money, as the viks!!!! the trading can bring you a lot!

So, I was considering the option of burning Ireland to the ground (still a viking, after all) when the mercians go into a mini civil war that make them loose Middel Engle to the rebels! I jump on that one, and start developping the province.

Then it started.

The saxons attacked me in south saxe. I autocalc, no good result. Let's play it. the battle was lost anyway, but I wanted to kill loads of saxons. Which I did.

I build a force of retaliation and strike back. I have a "middle size army" with my 5 stars king and one prince moving from Middel Engle to East Saxe, and 3-4 units from Manau, Hoardaland and Cantware to break the siege in South Saxe.

End of turn. Those Saxons will pay!!!!

Well, all the armies start their moves. A big mercian army lands in east Saxe. as if I hadn't enough with the Saxons... Well... Welcome to difficult level.

Saxons kicked out of South Saxe. No problem. for some reasons they did not move the two 800 armies they had in west saxe (maybe afraid of the mercians?). They even fall into civil war, losing those two big armies int West Saxe!!!!

The battle of East saxe: the mercian army is big: 6 archers, 3 huscarls, 4 fyrds, maybe 3 peasants, and maybe 20 units of fyrds/peasants reinforcements. I have 2 huscarles, 5 landmen and 5 carls. So be it.

Just to be sure, autocalc is not good. I loose the battle, killing 500, losing 300

Let's play it.

Thinking of the archers, I put all my troops in the woods. I had access to a wood big enough to put all my troops in it. I was only thinking of protecting me against the arrows. and try to kill as many as I could before having to retreat.

What happened is really weird. They sent their Huscarles first, and then their fyrds in the forrests, and I could slightly outmanoeuver them and create 2/1 or 3/1 local situations within the woods. Of course, the enemy units, including the general, went routing.

And the the whole mercian army withdrew from the battle field. My tired landsmen couldn't believe their eyes!!!

And this happened a second time, two years later!!! This made the mercians break into civil war as well, giving me some fresh air.

I really wondered about a 3 500 army against 650 withdrawing after 400 death.

Then I figured: archers and peasant did see a big wood. They saw 350 huscarles/fyrds enter the wood. They saw 20 huscalres and 50 fyrds jerking out of the wood, screaming for their lives (i did not pursue the routers at all). They decided it was a bad idea to go in that wood.

[Deus ret.]

nice! if you want to turn a similar battle into a real slugfest.... just take your king and his heir. the Mercians likely won't retreat because your army is so ridiculously small but if you stay in those magical woods you'll hack them all to pieces, achieving a kill ratio of at least 20:1 (no kidding).

actually as the Vikings you don't need a real army at all (except for keeping those Christians suppressed) as long as no other factions sports a significant number of huscarles - so keep them small and don't refrain from inland raids, especially vs. the Mercians. most early/middle armies stand no chance even against your sole king (who soon attains unbelievable valour heights) if you play out the battles yourself.. in my last Viking campaign I took a vow never to fight with any other unit than my royals and got bored nevertheless when I was dominating the entire map at will.

[Caerfanan]

nice! if you want to turn a similar battle into a real slugfest.... just take your king and his heir. the Mercians likely won't retreat because your army is so ridiculously small but if you stay in those magical woods you'll hack them all to pieces, achieving a kill ratio of at least 20:1 (no kidding).

actually as the Vikings you don't need a real army at all (except for keeping those Christians suppressed) as long as no other factions sports a significant number of huscarles - so keep them small and don't refrain from inland raids, especially vs. the Mercians. most early/middle armies stand no chance even against your sole king (who soon attains unbelievable valour heights) if you play out the battles yourself.. in my last Viking campaign I took a vow never to fight with any other unit than my royals and got bored nevertheless when I was dominating the entire map at will.

Yeah, they are very, very good fighters. I think that a viking army only fears crossbows and cavalry. I did loose 30% of my huscarles and almost a whole unit of landsmen though. But those archers and peasants did not know!

With the viking, your only problem could be the money, but with a good raid from time to time, you can install a very effective empire.

I still wonder: will I rase Ireland, which is at war with my friends from Scotland (or so they think), leaving the mercians and saxons recover from their wounds. Or do I take a couple of provinces from those (thinking of Dornsaete and Mierce) before going to Ireland, or do I unite Tha mercians Saxons and Vikings?

I'm not playing on expert though. Only Hard. It should arrive soon enough!

[Adrian II]

Couldn't agree more. They rule in Early M:TW and are useful even later on as Governors, bridge-takers/defenders and bodyguards for your Royals. I have written a eulogy of Huscarles in my M:TW Danish mini-guide:

Huscarls are Vikings with a vengeance, and it is personal. They are elite, armour-piercing and near-impenetrable on 'hold formation'. In Early you can just wind them up, let them loose and watch the show. Later on they still make great bridge-takers or bridge-defenders against spear-heavy enemies and even against Mongol Heavy Cavalry. Keep your Huscarls close to your commanders if you can. As a unit of last resort, Huscarls will never run without putting up a good fight to cover your retreat. Huscarls also make good governors with decent acumen and above average piety and loyalty.

Train your Huscarls in Sweden (with the weapons upgrade) and retrain them in Denmark if possible to give them the armour upgrade as well, or vice versa.

[Martok]

Ah, Huscarles. How do I love thee? Let me count the ways....

I still wonder: will I rase Ireland, which is at war with my friends from Scotland (or so they think), leaving the mercians and saxons recover from their wounds. Or do I take a couple of provinces from those (thinking of Dornsaete and Mierce) before going to Ireland, or do I unite Tha mercians Saxons and Vikings?

Hit the Mercians and Saxons now. Don't give them the chance to rebuild and rearm, else it will surely be to your grief! You can always sack Eire after you've gained control of southern Britain.

[naut]

Ah, Huscarles. How do I love thee? Let me count the ways....

Huscarles, how I mod thee tomorrow afternoon. They are ridiculously good!

[Caerfanan]

Ah, Huscarles. How do I love thee? Let me count the ways....


Hit the Mercians and Saxons now. Don't give them the chance to rebuild and rearm, else it will surely be to your grief! You can always sack Eire after you've gained control of southern Britain.

Yup. I did smash the Saxons, finally. They taunted me and attacked again South saxe with a ridiculous army. Brave but annoying.

So I'm regrouping/building armies to crush the Mercians, who have only 4 provinces now Mierce, Hwice, Wrocen Saetan and, err... Middle Saxe? (well, not south, not east. not west. .. GAH!)

After this, I'll choose. Burning Ireland to the ground, taking rebel provinces (the wesh are very slow on this one, could becaus I burnt the abbeys in Defet ans Guined at the beginning of the game). Welle, this depending on how will the other factions behave. They are all balanced for now.

But many comentaries I've read about the viks seem to come true: once you've sold your money problem, nobody can do much against you....

[Caerfanan]

Huscarles, how I mod thee tomorrow afternoon. They are ridiculously good!

Yes, I haven't played MTW outside the viking campaign since I bought the eras box. I wonder what the Huscarles and landsmenn have changed for the Danish faction...

But I remember that years ago, I jumped on MTW when it went out (mid-2001), didn't run on my computer and I sold it to a friend. But on the magnificent unit table, the Huscarles were written on paper, but not buildable!!! (yes, I played my very first campaign with the Danes!)

[Martok]

Yes, I haven't played MTW outside the viking campaign since I bought the eras box. I wonder what the Huscarles and landsmenn have changed for the Danish faction...

But I remember that years ago, I jumped on MTW when it went out (mid-2001), didn't run on my computer and I sold it to a friend. But on the magnificent unit table, the Huscarles were written on paper, but not buildable!!! (yes, I played my very first campaign with the Danes!)

The Danes seem to generally do a bit better now, as they at least take over Scandanavia instead of just sitting there going bankrupt. They'll also conquer lands along the Baltic now and then, as well as occasionally grabbing a German province or two if they're presented with the opportunity (i.e., the HRE leaves their northern lands under-defended while fighting other factions).

It's still rare for the Danes to become a major power, but at least they usually no longer just sit on their hands watching life pass them by. Whether this actually has anything to do with the Huscarles and Landsmen, however, I'm not sure. I think it's more likely their AI behavior was simply changed to be more aggressive in Viking Invasion. Of course, the Landsmen and Huscarles probably don't hurt.

[naut]

It's still rare for the Danes to become a major power, but at least they usually no longer just sit on their hands watching life pass them by.

Surprisingly I find the opposite, often in my games I find the Danes in Spain, Central Europe, Britain and even Turkey.

[Martok]

Surprisingly I find the opposite, often in my games I find the Danes in Spain, Central Europe, Britain and even Turkey.

Believe me Rythmic, I'm not surprised. I should've qualified my earlier statement with "in my experience", as I know the Danes tend to perform very differently for different people. Some folks don't see them expand that much, and others like yourself see them become a superpower quite frequently. Yet one more wonderful aspect to this game -- you can never truly predict what will happen!