A start on the .MESH file format

[Dave1984]

I hate to make a completely useless post, but I look forward everyday to viewing this thread and seeing what you guys are coming up- it's all just so damned exciting! Can't wait to see some of this stuff released in mods!

[GubZol]

Hey GrumpyOldMan!
Can you create a berserker modell for Denmark? Half nacked, with long hair and a two handed axe?
Can you make me a modell? Please!

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi Gubzol

Hey GrumpyOldMan!
Can you create a berserker modell for Denmark? Half nacked, with long hair and a two handed axe?
Can you make me a modell? Please!

No, but if you get stuck making your own figure, I'll give you advice on how to fix it.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi Guys

I've just uploaded the beta of the RTW Cas to M2tw converter to http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/M2...TW_BETA_13.zip . Post here if you have any problems.

Oops the doc is here http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/M2...W_MESH_doc.zip

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[Adragon]

I've just tried the latest version. I'm very eager to convert some of my RTW models but it doesn't seem to be converting properly. It just creates a blank file of the same name with this:

//Milkshape 3D

Frames: 1
Frame: 1

I've tried several vannila RTW models and some others from RTR but havent had any luck.

Any suggestions?

[FedeITA]

hi to all! i have a problem with the mesh editor for mounts, when i reconvert the ms3d to mesh the model ingame is "broken" like some screens in this tread, i tried to see if there are some point unassigned but nothing... sorry for my bad english.
horse in milkshape3d:
and ingame:

[KnightErrant]

@fedeITA
Check which version of the meshconverter you are using.
I had a bug with uv coordinates not being done correctly. The
latest version, v1_0_2 should have fixed this. You can also
check in Milkshape by applying the texture there and see if it
comes out ok.

[FedeITA]

@fedeITA
Check which version of the meshconverter you are using.
I had a bug with uv coordinates not being done correctly. The
latest version, v1_0_2 should have fixed this. You can also
check in Milkshape by applying the texture there and see if it
comes out ok.

i'm using the lastest version of your tool (1.0.2), and the first screen is from milkshape and you can see that its ok

[KnightErrant]

@FedeITA
PM'd you my e-mail. I'll look at the mesh and ms3d
files and try to figure out what's going wrong.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi Adragon

I've just tried the latest version. I'm very eager to convert some of my RTW models but it doesn't seem to be converting properly. It just creates a blank file of the same name with this:

//Milkshape 3D

Frames: 1
Frame: 1

I've tried several vannila RTW models and some others from RTR but havent had any luck.

Any suggestions?

I know there is a problem with BI and Alex figures but it should be converting vanilla and anything exported from Verc's script ok. I know that Andromachus Theodoulos has been working away on converting RTR figures so the converter should work on those.

Can you give me file names of vanilla figures that aren't converting for you.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[Roman_Man#3]

I know I have asked this before, but you need Milkshape 3d 1.8.0?

I am not sure which version is needed.

Thanks,
RM3

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi

I know I have asked this before, but you need Milkshape 3d 1.8.0?

I am not sure which version is needed.

Thanks,
RM3

Yes, you need 1.8.0, the beta of 1.8.1 also works as well, but 1.8.0 is the version that has the proper vertex weighting support.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[Adragon]

Hi Adragon



I know there is a problem with BI and Alex figures but it should be converting vanilla and anything exported from Verc's script ok. I know that Andromachus Theodoulos has been working away on converting RTR figures so the converter should work on those.

Can you give me file names of vanilla figures that aren't converting for you.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

I've tried over 30 models. Examples are models_unit\unit_greek_hoplite_high.CAS, models_unit\unit_greek_hoplite_med.CAS, models_unit\barb_male_peasant_high.CAS, models_unit\officer_roman_early_centurion_low.CAS

When I have selected one of these files, the program does nothing. A 0kb file is created and I cannot delete it. I have tried leaving the program running for half an hour but it doesn't do anything. When I close the program, the file jumps to 1Kb and inside is that message I posted earlier.

Could Windows Vista have anything to do with this?

[Aradiel]

great work everyone, especially the smurfs gave me a hearty laugh.

Im part of the Rise of Xerxes mod team and would like to ask for some help with rigging.

I read this thread completly and careful, however i still miss some of the knowhow to get started properly. I use 3ds, and therefor i use ms only as a link between the meshconverter and 3ds, although as mentioned the bone and weighting data is lost due to the file conversion. The FBX format was mentioned, although the bonedata is kept, it looks pretty weird to me when i load it into 3ds.

Now i would like to know which file format you prefer, and how you rigged the "new" model. Did you keep the body structure and tryd to assign the new mesh parts as close as possible to the original model structure or simply by trial error ? And why does every unit have 4 meshes when each has stored the different versions of bodykit parts in itself ? I hope you can help me to close some knowledge gaps

greets Aradiel

[Bwian]

I found it easiest to make the mesh and export it as 3DS. No rigging goes with it.

I have saved an MS3D a model with all the mesh removed and just the bones left ( Make sure you have changed the MS3D preferences so the bones show up properly! )

Then, import the 3DS to Milkshape and rig there. It's not that bad for rigging...and quite similar to Max.

Then just save the MS3D file and convert to Mesh.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi Adragon

I've tried over 30 models. Examples are models_unit\unit_greek_hoplite_high.CAS, models_unit\unit_greek_hoplite_med.CAS, models_unit\barb_male_peasant_high.CAS, models_unit\officer_roman_early_centurion_low.CAS

When I have selected one of these files, the program does nothing. A 0kb file is created and I cannot delete it. I have tried leaving the program running for half an hour but it doesn't do anything. When I close the program, the file jumps to 1Kb and inside is that message I posted earlier.

Could Windows Vista have anything to do with this?

Quite possibly, I've only got XP and earlier windows so I haven't tested it with Vista. I'll see if I can get any answers on some prog.forums.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[Andromachus Theodoulos]

Hi All,

Sorry I have not posted lately, I didn't drop off the face of TW, my wife unchained me from my rock of chores and husbandly / fatherly duties and I was able to do some work.

On converting RTW cas, I have not converted any vanilla, BI or Alexander CAS's, but I have converted a large portion of RTR, Europa Barbarorum and Some Napoleonic TW CAS's... seeing if those CAS's could be brought up into MilkShape, and they can... their corresponding parts can be brought into M2TW flawlessly as I can see through my testing.

I followed Grumpy's converter directions step by step, and with that everything worked great.

Another thing, I am not sure what demand there is for a newbie tutorial on converting meshes and bringing them back into the game. I plan to write one, but all my computer time has been devoted to new unit generation... what little I have right at the moment. If there is large demand for a tutorial, I will get started on one, if it is something that can wait about a month, like say June... I will wait until then everybody can let me know.

Also, to Grumpy, did anyone ever figure out if we can combine spear and sword in units... i.e. give the shield spearmen a sword as a secondary weapon. I know you guys were looking into it a couple of weeks ago for hoplites... I am trying to do the same thing, but I was not sure what the outcome was. Let me know...

Thanks

AT

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi AT

Hi All,

Sorry I have not posted lately, I didn't drop off the face of TW, my wife unchained me from my rock of chores and husbandly / fatherly duties and I was able to do some work.

On converting RTW cas, I have not converted any vanilla, BI or Alexander CAS's, but I have converted a large portion of RTR, Europa Barbarorum and Some Napoleonic TW CAS's... seeing if those CAS's could be brought up into MilkShape, and they can... their corresponding parts can be brought into M2TW flawlessly as I can see through my testing.

I followed Grumpy's converter directions step by step, and with that everything worked great.

Cas files are a bit of dog's breakfast, I've found 5 distinct versions so far with their own formats and one of the versions has variations as well. I'm working on converting some of the earlier 3.16 versions as well as the 3.18 versions, I'll have a look at the 3.20, 3.21 and 3.22 versions for BI later.

Another thing, I am not sure what demand there is for a newbie tutorial on converting meshes and bringing them back into the game. I plan to write one, but all my computer time has been devoted to new unit generation... what little I have right at the moment. If there is large demand for a tutorial, I will get started on one, if it is something that can wait about a month, like say June... I will wait until then everybody can let me know.

I hope they say Yes and I hope you can find the time to do the tut. It gives me more time to play with skeletons and animations

Also, to Grumpy, did anyone ever figure out if we can combine spear and sword in units... i.e. give the shield spearmen a sword as a secondary weapon. I know you guys were looking into it a couple of weeks ago for hoplites... I am trying to do the same thing, but I was not sure what the outcome was. Let me know...

Thanks

AT

Yes we did. The main issue is that the spears get replaced by swords fairly quickly. I've seen a thread either here or at TWCenter where people were working on getting pikes to retain their pikes for longer rather than go for swords. That may be applicable.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[Andromachus Theodoulos]

@Grumpy

Considering your reply on the tut, I count that as 10 votes to start now!!!

Anybody else??

I will be gone all next week out of town, but I can try to start this week...

AT

[The Celt]

Hi All

Bored so I tried importing a Valve type smd and exporting it as a m2tw mesh but I don't think anybody will take me seriously:-





Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

I'm lovin it.

[alpaca]

Hey guys, could be I got some info about that sphere for the meshes.
Palamedes said something about a sphere that is kind of an invisible target area for projectiles, so could you try increasing it and do pre and post quantitative testing of projectile effectiveness against the unit?

[zxiang1983]

Hi, Grumpyoldman.

I think maybe I've discovered a bug of the converter or there must be something special in vanilla mesh file.

I convert the vanilla chivalric_knights_lod0.mesh to chivalric_knights_lod0.ms3d. And I use vanilla mtw2_en_pplate_france.texture as his skin(which is appointed in vanilla battle_models.modeldb). Everything is fine except those helmets.


Then I checked the TCE. To my surprise, the uv of the helmets has been moved outside the texture! This is really weird...


My first thought is maybe it's a bug of the converter. However after taking a close look at the uv I should say there's no match shape for them in the texture! It seems as if chivalric_knights_lod0.mesh(lod1, lod2, too) uses several texture files at the same time!

This is all I did. I didn't change the model or the texture at all.

Would you please check the model if you have spare time, GOM? I'm really confused... If you can't reproduce my problem please tell me as well. I'll try again. Thanks very much!



Edit: I got the problem now. It's a tiny bug of your converter . The material of Chivalric Knights(and other similar units)' helmets should be "attachments" rather than "figure".

[AlphaDelta1]

Thanks again GoM, KE and co for producing a piece of software that is giving us all hours of enterainment.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi Zxiang

Hi, Grumpyoldman.

I think maybe I've discovered a bug of the converter or there must be something special in vanilla mesh file.

I convert the vanilla chivalric_knights_lod0.mesh to chivalric_knights_lod0.ms3d. And I use vanilla mtw2_en_pplate_france.texture as his skin(which is appointed in vanilla battle_models.modeldb). Everything is fine except those helmets.

Then I checked the TCE. To my surprise, the uv of the helmets has been moved outside the texture! This is really weird...


My first thought is maybe it's a bug of the converter. However after taking a close look at the uv I should say there's no match shape for them in the texture! It seems as if chivalric_knights_lod0.mesh(lod1, lod2, too) uses several texture files at the same time!

This is all I did. I didn't change the model or the texture at all.

Would you please check the model if you have spare time, GOM? I'm really confused... If you can't reproduce my problem please tell me as well. I'll try again. Thanks very much!



Edit: I got the problem now. It's a tiny bug of your converter . The material of Chivalric Knights(and other similar units)' helmets should be "attachments" rather than "figure".

I don't know why they do this to me, every other helmet is on the figure texture . I haven't come across any others like this. Maybe it's a one off, or a maverick modeller . I'm not sure how I'll fix this in the converter, but it's easy enough to fix in Milkshape, assign the correct material to the group and drag it back to be where it should be. If the correct material is assigned in Milkshape, the converter will make the correct conversion back to M2TW coords.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[Lusted]

The Chivalric Knights, and units that use the same helmets are the only ones i've seen that use a helmet texture in the attatchment texture.

[zxiang1983]

Ya, I already did that. However, draging them precisely to the correct locations one by one is not an easy job, lol ~:P

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi Zxiang

Ya, I already did that. However, draging them precisely to the correct locations one by one is not an easy job, lol ~:P

If you have a look at Milkshape 1.8.1 Beta, Mete has put a lock x and lock y in the TCE which makes it easier to move coords across

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[Caliban]

Oh man how I would love to slaughter those Ronalds!

I have been given the go-ahead to release the unpacked animations and .evt files for the modding community.

I have put them up on mediafire http://www.mediafire.com/?7ydzbziijmy
Feel free to host these files officially. The download is around 60mb and unzips to twice that.

Simply download and unzip to your data\ folder. It will extract everything to the animations folder with sub-directories. You should be able to delete your data\animations\*.dat *.idx files and then run the game with this in your config:

[util]
no_animdb = true

This should run the game directly from the animation files, bypassing the need to re-build the pack files. Deleting the pack files without using the no_animdb command should rebuild the animation files from your animation source folder.

I haven't tested this myself in a retail build and would love to know how it goes.

Caliban

[Casuir]

Thank you Caliban

Tried it out and the game definitely recompiles the database, the command switch doesnt seem to work though, the files are recompiled whether its there or not.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi Caliban and Casuir

Thank you Caliban

Tried it out and the game definitely recompiles the database, the command switch doesnt seem to work though, the files are recompiled whether its there or not.

Agree with Casuir, dat and idx files are recompiled AND the cfg is autogenerated without the [util] addition.

But apart from that, this is a great step forward for modding with the TW engine . We now know what's required to get new SKELETONS and animations into the engine.

With skeletons, we'll have to remember a few rules - a fighting figure (ie not mount) will require a bone_abs, a bone_torso, a bone_head, a bone_Rhand and a bone_Lhand. This is what the engine recognises for fighting, weapons, etc. Mounts will require a nominal renaming as horse ie mount_kangaroo_horse and have a bone_saddle for figure attachment, etc, etc.

Let's give a cheer for Caliban -

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan