A start on the .MESH file format

[KnightErrant]

Sorry, I've been falling asleep without logging out the past few nights.

The back converted mesh has all computed values for the normals,
tangents, and binormals for blocks 1, 2, and 3. So it's a consistant
right handed system, it just has a disconnect with Milkshape's convention.
I think I knew this a few days ago because my figures came into Milkshape
lying on their sides so I did a few swaps to make them look right in Milkshape
but then I forgot about this going backwards so the geometry or meshes
are ok but the auxilliary data is reversed. I'll fix it up tonight.
I agree I'm not going to worry too much about a difference of 1 in
the tangent space normal maps because 1/255 = 0.4% so who's going to
even be able to notice that.

I took a quick look at the link and I have to say I never thought Python
would be used to program a shader. It looks like they can make
OpenGL and DirectX calls for vertex shaders, pixel shaders, bump mapping,
environment mapping, etc. Not that we need this but I'm still blown away
that you can do this in an interpreted language. (Actually I think the article
says that Python gets compiled natively at some point, have to read it
carefully later.)

I think I just want to fix up a few things and then I've gone about as far
as my knowledge will take me. I'd like to write up the tangent space
normal mapping stuff to leave some documentation in the Wiki just because
it's so interesting in its own right. Otherwise I'm ready to test stuff
whenever you need it.

[Andromachus Theodoulos]

@All...

If you guys don't mind a complete 3D modelling newb test your work as well, I am here...

I work with 3D CADD programs, but I am not sure how similar in function they would be with 3D animation/gaming.

Let me know!!

AT

[Bwian]

Does this mean what I think it nmeans?

Knight Errant has managed to IMPORT a model from the game, mess about with it in Milkshape 3D, and then EXPORT a completely funtional model with skeleton and texture intact back out and have it work perfectly in game?

Damn fine work!

Assuming this is a stable process, and judging from the tech-speak flying around, you guys definitely seem to understand how the process works, how near are we to a tool that can be tested by us polygon pushers?

I am assuming we can import the skeleton intact and use MS3D to rig a mesh for export? Can't wait to try this out!!!!!

[KnightErrant]

Hi AT and Bwian,

The only technical thing we were waiting on was what we
called the mystery blocks but now that we know they are
vertex normals, tangents, and binormals in a cube normalized
RGB format that's the last unknown.

My stuff is all hard coded to feudal_knight_lod0 and was only meant to
test the conversion algorithms from the data layout of the .mesh to
the data layout of an .ms2d and back again and getting
the granny strings right. But now we know it works.

I'd say like a week or so, but then again don't let me put words
in GrumpyOldMan's mouth. Stay tuned, we'll hear good things soon!

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi Guys

I am assuming we can import the skeleton intact and use MS3D to rig a mesh for export? Can't wait to try this out!!!!!

As a break from wrestling with the Tangent and Binormals, I thought I'd try out the size of RTW meshes with the M2TW skeleton, here's a pic https://i150.photobucket.com/albums/...rtw_2_m2tw.jpg .

The size overall is pretty good but the head needs alignment, especially with the Jaw and Eyebrows. I hope the Warhammer guys don't mind me using one of their .cas files . On the whole it would be easier to use M2TW parts and retexture than to completely rerig a skeleton and mesh, but it would be possible.

Well, that was a nice break, I'll go back and see if I can find out what I'm doing wrong .

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[alpaca]

Huh did you write a cas importer for Milkshape then?

@KE:

[Andromachus Theodoulos]

@ Alpaca...

It looks as though he did something to get the old cas model into ms3d... revolutionary!!!

@GOM...
I was curious if there was a scale/size difference was between the two models, because I have notice that I have had to scale textures I used from RTW up several times (1.5 if I remember right) to get the to be at the right "scale" with the M2TW models.

I used the lorica segmentata from the western Roman auxilia palatina in RTWBI and merged it with the Italian spear militia texture in M2TW. I have done the same with adding scale mail to the same model... I also did this with the Tercio pikemen (not historically accurate, but looks cool...)

So it is interesting that the models appear to be the same size, which is great for switching textures back and forth, this will save a lot of work, not having to develop things from scratch.

AT

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi All

Not much to report, steadily tearing down my walls of ignorance .

@GOM...
I was curious if there was a scale/size difference was between the two models, because I have notice that I have had to scale textures I used from RTW up several times (1.5 if I remember right) to get the to be at the right "scale" with the M2TW models.
AT

The mesh and skeleton were shown as-is, store-bought, off-the-shelf. The mesh retains it's UV texture values so it uses the original texture. After the major work has been done, I'll look at a CAS to MS3D converter possibly reassigning the vertices to the equivalent bones in M2TW. I also have to look at a converter to extract animation data back to M2TW CAS format (I've already got the M2TW CAS to MS3D roughly done).

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[quadrille]

I hope the Warhammer guys don't mind me using one of their .cas files

Not at all! :)

I'm thrilled by your work, as has been said before you guys will be heroes in the community!

I agree with what Bwian said about animations and skeletons. Not being able to edit bone positions and add new skeletons is part of what killed the warhammer mod. If we were able to do that with M2TW the sky would truly be the limit.