Chechnya

[Brenus]

which conflicts do you think the Chechnya conflict is comparable to in terms of motives?
Kosovo (I Metohija) in some aspects, except that Chechnya is not the holly Land of Russia. And the fact that the Serbs campaign was a garden Party comparing what the Russian did and still doing…

which conflicts do you think the Chechnya conflict is comparable to in death tolls and suffering for civilians?
The actual conflict in Iraq. In Bosnia, the main problem was the so-called ethnic-cleansing. No UNPROFOR in Chechnya, no Protected Areas, no Deny Fly, no witnesses, no NGO, no interests from media and others, the Russians can do what they want.

can the Chechnyan combattants be classified as terrorists, or should they be called freedom fighters?
Both. And kidnappers, drug dealers and all kind of illegal (but lucrative) activities… They are actually the very example of victims difficult to love and protect…

are the Russian actions in Chechnya war crimes?
Yes.

[IrishArmenian]

LEN, I'm saying that ithey have only truly occupied the land for 100-200 years, so I find it difficult to find their claims to the land credible when land that other people have occupied for thousands of years can be taken, leaving a small nation which is only a fraction of its former lands.
The Russians do have a terrible way of dealing with the Chechens, but historically, Russia has had few good ways of dealing with anything.

[master of the puppets]

IrishArmenian does your grandfather have to have lived in a place to make it your home and worth fighting for?

but seriously this war in my opinion seems to be most like the Boer wars in south africa, people fighting against a much larger foe who has treated them horribly and denies them a good life. excluding the concentration camps (to a point) the russians have accomplished this. they attempt to smother the chechnyan lifestyle and the chechnyans had every right to fight back against the atrocious russians. they also had every opertunity to become freedom fighters but unfortunatly they chose rather to use obviously dispicable tactics. or at least many do, its not fair to call them all the same.

[IrishArmenian]

It was someone else's land before that.

[LeftEyeNine]

Land is one's whoever has it for the time being. If another one feels it as a homeland, then he fires up his guts and tries to take it back. This is the natural cycle that ran for the whole history.

Someone having a history with a territory does not render invalid another one from claiming it the place to live and settle there, hence worth defending for himself. I don't see the use of numbers here, no historians used either.

[BDC]

People's homeland is wherever they feel like it is. Saying someone who was born somewhere that it isn't their land because their ancestors moved there 300 years ago is just stupid. Originally everyone was from some small part of Africa, so if you go by where ancestors lived no one has a right to anywhere.

[IrishArmenian]

Land is one's whoever has it for the time being. If another one feels it as a homeland, then he fires up his guts and tries to take it back. This is the natural cycle that ran for the whole history.

Someone having a history with a territory does not render invalid another one from claiming it the place to live and settle there, hence worth defending for himself. I don't see the use of numbers here, no historians used either.

So, as long as one wants the land, it is said person's homeland? With the U.S. invading the Middle East, is the Middle East a homeland of Americans? Does that mean that any foreign invader has the 'right' to whatever land he invades?
I am also interested to see your thoughts on Zionism, if it isn't an inconvenience and doesn't steer this thread off topic.

[LeftEyeNine]

So, as long as one wants the land, it is said person's homeland? With the U.S. invading the Middle East, is the Middle East a homeland of Americans? Does that mean that any foreign invader has the 'right' to whatever land he invades?

You're not a fool not to understand what I meant. Apple and pear are both fruits but you can't sum them up together, you remember that ?

I am also interested to see your thoughts on Zionism, if it isn't an inconvenience and doesn't steer this thread off topic.

I'd like to know what you think of a black Michael Jackson but I definitely think that it would push the discussion off the hill.