Scotts are weak... and here's why

[dumas]

I know that you can play Scotts (or any other faction) against the AI and win. But taking the human factor out of it, they are just terrible. (moderator edit)

All the Islamic factions have enough rebel lands between them to keep busy for a while. When they do meet, they're evenly matched.

Byzantines are rich as hell with good units.

Italian factions have similar good units coming out of their cities so they're evenly matched.

Russia isn't even touched in the beginning. When they do meet another faction, they're able to match (or better) the opposing units. Same for Hungary and Poland. That area is evenly matched.

Iberia (Spain and Portugal) are evenly matched.

France and HRE are evenly matched.

England has a powerful and unique line of archers.

So what does Scots have against their neighbor England? Nothing. They start out with one city, and outclassed in all of their units compared to England. Again, I know that if you play against AI, you can beat anything... but imagine if all the factions were played by human players. That's why I think Scotts are the weakest faction in the game.

[econ21]

I'm editing the thread title - let's try to avoid the word "suck" as an insult, please. It's pretty clear it started out as a sexual insult and so is not a suitable term for this board, although nowadays many people don't realise that.

[diotavelli]

Scotts? Scotts? Try going into any pub North of Hadrian's Wall and telling them you spell Scot with two 't's. They hate that just as much as being referred to as "the Scotch".

They didn't paint themselves blue and follow Mel Gibson to their deaths just to have some 21st century PC gamer misspell their nationality, you know.

Actually, they didn't paint themselves blue - anyone would go that colour if they lived on a mountain in the rain and wore a skirt with no underpants....

[Revenant]

Scotts? Scotts? Try going into any pub North of Hadrian's Wall and telling them you spell Scot with two 't's. They hate that just as much as being referred to as "the Scotch".

They didn't paint themselves blue and follow Mel Gibson to their deaths just to have some 21st century PC gamer misspell their nationality, you know.

Actually, they didn't paint themselves blue - anyone would go that colour if they lived on a mountain in the rain and wore a skirt with no underpants....

[HoreTore]

Well.... Anyway, I've never played with the scots. I do, however, watch the battle between england and scotland every game. and EVERY one I can remember, the scots have whopped them. Every time around gunpowdertime, the entire british isles are comåletely blue....

[Ja'chyra]

Actually, they didn't paint themselves blue - anyone would go that colour if they lived on a mountain in the rain and wore a skirt with no underpants....

Skirt??????

[diotavelli]

Skirt??????

Sorry! Did I say skirt? I meant frock.

[Derventio]

Can I suggest you travel to Scotland, repeat all your comments in Glasgow on a Friday night.
The Scots being a truly hospitable people will no doubt welcome you with a Glasgow kiss. 3 weeks in hospital will probably be enough time to recover. Then take a convelescence in the highlands, enjoy the glorious scenery, imbibe the wonderful liquid refreshment and ponder the error of your ways.
I'm English but truly love Scotland.

[Ja'chyra]

Sorry! Did I say skirt? I meant frock.

That's better

[Lorenzo_H]

Scotts? Scotts? Try going into any pub North of Hadrian's Wall and telling them you spell Scot with two 't's. They hate that just as much as being referred to as "the Scotch".

They didn't paint themselves blue and follow Mel Gibson to their deaths just to have some 21st century PC gamer misspell their nationality, you know.

Actually, they didn't paint themselves blue - anyone would go that colour if they lived on a mountain in the rain and wore a skirt with no underpants....

lol.

It's a well known fact why the Scots wear kilts

Actually a Scottish person once told me it was so they could hide (). Whenever they saw what they were hunting they simply pulled their kilt above their heads and it wouldn't notice them.


Anyway, I believe the Scottish aren't purposely weak, they just are there to provide a challenge for the more experienced player.

[DukeKent]

From what I can tell the Scots do not get infantry gunpowder units, or Longbowmen in vanilla (although the French do?). Seems like the game designers forgot that the "English" nobility were not anglo's but Norman conquerors (or Vikings if you will). If memory serves me correctly the Longbow came originally from Wales anyway. So it should be who ever held wales got the longbowmen. Be that conqueror the Normans, or who ever. Sounds like a great modding opportunity to me. Stripping infantry gunpowder units from the Scots also blows. ?A little prejudice here on the game designers part? These serious deficiencies kept me from playing the Scots much sooner. Shame, shame Despite these questionable decisions, I am finally playing and enjoying the Scots despite the questionable limitations placed on the Scots. It took some modding to remove some of the more ridiculous limitations like not getting the admiralty buildings I could go on, but I think you get the point.

[Moah]

1 thing to add: yes you can beat the Mongols with Scots.

Hvy Pike Militia are pretty arrow resistant. Noble Highland archers Ok, same range as HA and ok in melee (as long as not charged). Border Horse fast.

It's not cheap and it's not pretty but....

Put your Pikes in a horseshoe - i.e. make sure you have several units at flank and 1 to the rear. Pile your archers in the middle (with culverin if you have it). General safely in the middle.

The swarm come in: All your Pikes go red under fire. But they won't run and take fewer casualties than you first think under the hail. Meanwhile the NHA are returning fire. If you can turn your artillery on the mongol foot archers all the better.

Now here's the good bit: As long as you can hold firm the Mongols will charge you. Their big nasty general: Bam!! Shish kebab. Their HA, their lancers - all will just disintegrate against your Pikes. Once they've been sliced to ribbons, now you can send your cav against the Foot archers.

You do take losses but hvy pike militia are dirt cheap and available in Large (not even huge) cities.

Obviously if you're at a river or bridge then you can win with almost no losses at all. I had an entire mongol elite army charge into oblivion and didn't even rotate the two pike units holding the bridge (in a V to allow the mongols in a little, making the killing ground even sweeter). I lost almost nobody.

[ASPER THE GREAT]

Playing as the Scot's, what you see is what you get . 1 city (Edinburgh) that is "Scotland", in the game (Inverness) is a rebel city, you ask "why is it not part of Scotland" because the "Scottish" (2 "T") clans waged war on each other for who has the right to rule Scotland & they just could never come together. It was war against "England" and yes the English army's were better equipped and could field many more troops then the Scot's, Welsh, & Irish. After many battles & political (shuck & jive) through the years we have a "Happy United Kingdom" or so the world believes. "British Policies Make The World England" Brand new game straight out of the box play England take over the world, yea right after screwing around taking rebel cites then sending 2 full stacks up to Scotland easy picking's "NOT" they whooped my butt A/I style !!!!!! That part of the world has the best money can buy.

[dismal]

Scots are effectively a "corner faction". What you do get is a very nice initial army, and only one border to worry about. Mass your initial troops and send them south and you can be in London in just a few turns.

[IsItStillThere]

In the game I'm playing now, the AI Scots are whipping AI England. England only has two provinces, london and the one just north of london.

The Scots have all the rest of the british isles (Ireland too), and norway to boot!


They can do quite well, since England can get bogged down fighting for france.

[dumas]

I'm editing the thread title - let's try to avoid the word "suck" as an insult, please.

No insult intended. I have nothing against Scottish people in real life and I didn't realize "suck" had a sexual connotation.
"blowing the bagpipe" would've been much more obvious.

[IrishArmenian]

When playing as Alba, one cannot rely on one's units. Rather, one must build some forts with some highland rabble inside to divert all the English attacks into one pass, where one has already positioned a field army waiting to ambush. This works quite well for me and it has depleted the English army with few casualties on my part. That strategy works to get the Scottish economy working, and once that is in full swing, it is ver easy to pick up momentum, building very good infantry--granted the 2-hand fix has been downloaded.
I like the Border Horses, great calvary when used correctly. After a few upgrades, they can either out fight or out run anything the English have. They are the bane of the Longbowmen!

[Derfasciti]

I've always wanted to play as the Scots simply because I wanted to wage war with England. The problem is I just have a problem with continuing those campaigns because I just see Scotland conquering the whol Isle, let alone the world, as a tad too unrealistic.

[Hosakawa Tito]

Kilt check!

[Marquis of Roland]

As far as taking out the AI factor, Scots are indeed probably the weakest faction in the game. Their cavalry arm is limited, and they have no long range missile capability from their own unit roster. This means that their armies will be generally slow-moving on a battlefield and they won't be able to dictate the tempo of the battle and will have to react to the enemy instead of making the enemy react to their actions. In addition their armor is not the highest either (and the highlanders don't have shields I believe, correct me if I'm wrong), which makes them very vulnerable to missile-heavy armies like their neighbor England, or even worse, HA-heavy armies like Egypt or Mongols.

Which leads me to wonder: has anyone successfully taken out all the Mongols (12 stacks) with Scots?

I don't care if Scots suck in the game though, I love using Scots in custom battles (where I pit them against mainly infantry-heavy armies hehe), and I just like the way they look. I know there's all sorts of historical inaccuracies in Braveheart but damnit I like that movie and they just look cool . Scots vs. Aztecs was a fun one

[YankeeDoodle14]

I know that this thread is about the AI, but when human played that Scots can be very effective.

I once played a campaign where first I shipped all of my (Scottish) troops over to Denmark, conquered all of Northern Europe, the French coast, and then shipped men from France to Southern Britain. I then proceeded to take over England from the bottom up.