Scotts are weak... and here's why

[dumas]

I know that you can play Scotts (or any other faction) against the AI and win. But taking the human factor out of it, they are just terrible. (moderator edit)

All the Islamic factions have enough rebel lands between them to keep busy for a while. When they do meet, they're evenly matched.

Byzantines are rich as hell with good units.

Italian factions have similar good units coming out of their cities so they're evenly matched.

Russia isn't even touched in the beginning. When they do meet another faction, they're able to match (or better) the opposing units. Same for Hungary and Poland. That area is evenly matched.

Iberia (Spain and Portugal) are evenly matched.

France and HRE are evenly matched.

England has a powerful and unique line of archers.

So what does Scots have against their neighbor England? Nothing. They start out with one city, and outclassed in all of their units compared to England. Again, I know that if you play against AI, you can beat anything... but imagine if all the factions were played by human players. That's why I think Scotts are the weakest faction in the game.

[econ21]

I'm editing the thread title - let's try to avoid the word "suck" as an insult, please. It's pretty clear it started out as a sexual insult and so is not a suitable term for this board, although nowadays many people don't realise that.

[diotavelli]

Scotts? Scotts? Try going into any pub North of Hadrian's Wall and telling them you spell Scot with two 't's. They hate that just as much as being referred to as "the Scotch".

They didn't paint themselves blue and follow Mel Gibson to their deaths just to have some 21st century PC gamer misspell their nationality, you know.

Actually, they didn't paint themselves blue - anyone would go that colour if they lived on a mountain in the rain and wore a skirt with no underpants....

[Revenant]

Scotts? Scotts? Try going into any pub North of Hadrian's Wall and telling them you spell Scot with two 't's. They hate that just as much as being referred to as "the Scotch".

They didn't paint themselves blue and follow Mel Gibson to their deaths just to have some 21st century PC gamer misspell their nationality, you know.

Actually, they didn't paint themselves blue - anyone would go that colour if they lived on a mountain in the rain and wore a skirt with no underpants....

[HoreTore]

Well.... Anyway, I've never played with the scots. I do, however, watch the battle between england and scotland every game. and EVERY one I can remember, the scots have whopped them. Every time around gunpowdertime, the entire british isles are comåletely blue....

[Ja'chyra]

Actually, they didn't paint themselves blue - anyone would go that colour if they lived on a mountain in the rain and wore a skirt with no underpants....

Skirt??????

[diotavelli]

Skirt??????

Sorry! Did I say skirt? I meant frock.

[Derventio]

Can I suggest you travel to Scotland, repeat all your comments in Glasgow on a Friday night.
The Scots being a truly hospitable people will no doubt welcome you with a Glasgow kiss. 3 weeks in hospital will probably be enough time to recover. Then take a convelescence in the highlands, enjoy the glorious scenery, imbibe the wonderful liquid refreshment and ponder the error of your ways.
I'm English but truly love Scotland.

[Ja'chyra]

Sorry! Did I say skirt? I meant frock.

That's better

[Carl]

Back to topic guys:

Many people underestimate the Scots, understandably enough.

First, they will always get Dublin and Inverness first in the hands of a human, and can get York too if they want it.

Second, They can get DFK, Highland Nobles, Border Horse, and Noble Highland Archers from a 3rd level Castle, and from a third level city they can get Scots Pike militia, with Heavy Pike Militia on the way. If you use a Pike fix or your willing to put a lot of micromanagement into your pikes you will find them to be VERY effective. the reality is that the force I just described above can easily take almost any army in the game from any time period. HA ones being the only problematic ones.

With good management it's possible to get an army like this out at around turn 30-40. Thats long before most factions have got beyond the spear militia stage in my hands.

And THAT is the strength of the Scots, their ability to get one of the best late period armies in the game, but to do so in the early stages of the game. Only Gunpowder/HA missile units really present a threat to Heavy Pike Militia, their Armour and numbers protecting them from lesser units.

[khaos83_2000]

Well, i dun use archers with the scotts.
But their other units are great.
I use their low tier infantry castle units all the time. (the highlander nobles and the ax unit after peasant) I find them able to hold the lines and repel higher tier units.
And I finished the long campign and finish off the mongols and all before the timuids arrive using the scotts.

[Carl]

The archers are VERY good, they are effectivlly Highlanders, (thats the unit a castles above peasents), with a bow and slightly better stats, so they're well worth using IMHO.

[ASPER THE GREAT]

Playing as the Scot's, what you see is what you get . 1 city (Edinburgh) that is "Scotland", in the game (Inverness) is a rebel city, you ask "why is it not part of Scotland" because the "Scottish" (2 "T") clans waged war on each other for who has the right to rule Scotland & they just could never come together. It was war against "England" and yes the English army's were better equipped and could field many more troops then the Scot's, Welsh, & Irish. After many battles & political (shuck & jive) through the years we have a "Happy United Kingdom" or so the world believes. "British Policies Make The World England" Brand new game straight out of the box play England take over the world, yea right after screwing around taking rebel cites then sending 2 full stacks up to Scotland easy picking's "NOT" they whooped my butt A/I style !!!!!! That part of the world has the best money can buy.

[dismal]

Scots are effectively a "corner faction". What you do get is a very nice initial army, and only one border to worry about. Mass your initial troops and send them south and you can be in London in just a few turns.

[IsItStillThere]

In the game I'm playing now, the AI Scots are whipping AI England. England only has two provinces, london and the one just north of london.

The Scots have all the rest of the british isles (Ireland too), and norway to boot!


They can do quite well, since England can get bogged down fighting for france.

[dumas]

I'm editing the thread title - let's try to avoid the word "suck" as an insult, please.

No insult intended. I have nothing against Scottish people in real life and I didn't realize "suck" had a sexual connotation.
"blowing the bagpipe" would've been much more obvious.

[IrishArmenian]

When playing as Alba, one cannot rely on one's units. Rather, one must build some forts with some highland rabble inside to divert all the English attacks into one pass, where one has already positioned a field army waiting to ambush. This works quite well for me and it has depleted the English army with few casualties on my part. That strategy works to get the Scottish economy working, and once that is in full swing, it is ver easy to pick up momentum, building very good infantry--granted the 2-hand fix has been downloaded.
I like the Border Horses, great calvary when used correctly. After a few upgrades, they can either out fight or out run anything the English have. They are the bane of the Longbowmen!

[Derfasciti]

I've always wanted to play as the Scots simply because I wanted to wage war with England. The problem is I just have a problem with continuing those campaigns because I just see Scotland conquering the whol Isle, let alone the world, as a tad too unrealistic.

[Hosakawa Tito]

Kilt check!

[Marquis of Roland]

As far as taking out the AI factor, Scots are indeed probably the weakest faction in the game. Their cavalry arm is limited, and they have no long range missile capability from their own unit roster. This means that their armies will be generally slow-moving on a battlefield and they won't be able to dictate the tempo of the battle and will have to react to the enemy instead of making the enemy react to their actions. In addition their armor is not the highest either (and the highlanders don't have shields I believe, correct me if I'm wrong), which makes them very vulnerable to missile-heavy armies like their neighbor England, or even worse, HA-heavy armies like Egypt or Mongols.

Which leads me to wonder: has anyone successfully taken out all the Mongols (12 stacks) with Scots?

I don't care if Scots suck in the game though, I love using Scots in custom battles (where I pit them against mainly infantry-heavy armies hehe), and I just like the way they look. I know there's all sorts of historical inaccuracies in Braveheart but damnit I like that movie and they just look cool . Scots vs. Aztecs was a fun one

[Fookison]

The Scot's are like any other faction. You need to play to their strengths. Take their Pikes and watch a cavalry army melt in your wake. Throw in some highland archers and away you go. We have had some great battles and campaigns as the Scots........"Where's the fight?"

[Rathelon]

My current campaign is with Scotland. I crushed England early on, and France shortly thereafter. Then had a very long off-and-on war with Sicily (who had taken over all of Italy), and finally eliminated Sicily and Spain. Denmark decided to test me, so I've virtually crushed his entire empire now as well. I control all of the British Isles, France, Italy, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Austria, Switzerland, and the northern half of Spain/Portugal. Just need about 2 more territories, and to sail an army to Jerusalem to secure the win.

Early on, the highland nobles and highland archers are good enough to take on whatever troops you're facing. Upgrade the armor on the nobles and they tear through enemy troops. Most of my infantry now are noble swordsmen, and I have Templar knights in Angers for cavalry (as well as feudal knights in my other fortresses). Noble highland archers still serve me fine, though I rely on archers less now since I have culverins and mortars with most of my armies.

[derfinsterling]

As the original poster said... If you *play* the Scots you can easily win the game. Beat the English and secure the Isles as a base of operations that is pretty much unmatched.

But, as an AI faction, they get shortwired. In my games, the Scots fared worse than the English, always being threatened by annihilation. Other factions, like Portugal or Denmark that start small as well, fare much, much better.

[grapedog]

I think part of the problem is that unless the AI changes the build, Edinburgh is a city, Iverness is a city, York is a city, Dublin is a city. Caernavorn(sp?) is the first castle that the Scot's can realistically take. I think thats why they tend to get shortchanged early...if they don't start grabbing cities, their cash production blows and they have a tough time keeping up with most other cultures, which is unfortunate. I'd love to see Scotland do well early and be around in the end game when I'm not playing them.

[Fisherking]

I think part of the problem is that unless the AI changes the build, Edinburgh is a city, Iverness is a city, York is a city, Dublin is a city. Caernavorn(sp?) is the first castle that the Scot's can realistically take. I think thats why they tend to get shortchanged early...if they don't start grabbing cities, their cash production blows and they have a tough time keeping up with most other cultures, which is unfortunate. I'd love to see Scotland do well early and be around in the end game when I'm not playing them.

Sorry! Inverness is a castle.........Take it on turn 2...check the unit guides

er...faction guides....

[grapedog]

i just took it like 2 days ago, i don't remember it being a castle. The Scots still have a very tough time making money in the early game.

[khaos83_2000]

kick the the English out of the island and $$$ pours in with all the trade rights you can get.


For my campiagn,
I kick the english out of the island in a few turns. I didnt land into europe.
Build up military and economy.
Make 3 stack and sail for Moors, Spain and Portugal. Didnt venture into the desert though...
Then build up again.
Then make another beach landing at the southen tip of Italy. On the way there, took the 2 isle. Push up till Milan.
Build up again.
Then from 3 fronts, push into the heart of Europe.
GG

[Fookison]

Like most I like to only rid the Brtish isles of the English and not be tempted into taking Caen. The English will not come back to attack the Island soon. Then build a good fleet of holks and an army to head over to Denmark. Take Scandanavia for some big $$$$ (Oslo and Stockhom) Then press south!!!! As for castles. What about Nottingham? This is where I stage my cavalry and other units required for the Danish attacks. Then focus on Arhus and Hamurg for mainland training. I use Arhus to build up the navy required to head to the new world. Hamburg for the army and voila!!!! Happy sailing.......

[Discoman]

In my Campaign as Venetia the Scots utterly destroyed the English, infact England no longer exists because the Scots took all of Ireland, Wales, and Britain. They even took Antwerp and Burges from the HRE. Which I took in return after they attacked me. In the AI department Scotland lacks, I had one, two star general with a very small yet able force, 5 stacks of Scottish cannons and pikemen later he was a 6 star and with a even smaller army. Honestly I keep beating the ai as they slowly charge with Pikemen that get shot up from crossbowmen and ribulets. Infact the AI was so bad I managed to have my general go behind their lines and take out all their artelliary. Which was half their army.

[DukeKent]

Looks like the Scots' are up next the limey dogs first. Then we shall see what looks most attractive. Vengence of my ancestors, something like that