in faraway large cities, huge garrisons required for keeping order?

[F for Fragging]

I was playing as Makedonia and conquered Syrakousai. Syrakousai was a large city, I enslaved the population after conquering it. Some turns later, I finished constructing a type 2 government. I also built public baths because the squalor seemed to be a problem for public order. Currently, I have a garrison of about 6 phalangitai deuteroi and 2 toxotai, without a governer. Yet still, I currently have normal taxes and 80% public order.

I mean, I have quite a large garrison there. and normal taxes with 80% public order is low compared to the other settlements I possess. Why is it so ridiculously hard to keep public order high in Syrakousai? Not sure how the sum goes, but right now I think it'd better abondon the city because the costs for paying the troops required for keeping order are almost higher than the tax income.

Also, does anybody have advice for me? I want to keep public with as few forces as cheap as possible, so I can spend most of my money on my army. For example, will there be any difference between how well 240 akontistai and 240 pezhetairoi can keep public order? And will there be difference depending on the amount of soldiers in a unit?

BTW, thanks a lot for 0.81, EB team.

[pezhetairoi]

I strongly suspect either Syrakousai has a hidden unrest penalty, or its population simply just grows way too fast. Even playing as Romani back then I couldn't go by without regularly massacring the Syrakousan population, it's become, what, an instrument of state. Comments, EB team?

[L.C.Cinna]

The advantage of akontistai over pezhetairoi when used as garrison is that the akontistai are cheaper.

I usually have one or 2 strong expensive field armies marching around and i am practically constantly recruiting akontistai. as soon as I capture a town. I leave my good troops in there until the next ship full of akontistai plus a few fresh units to refill the veterans arrives (usually 1 or 2 turns), then move on with my field army.. like this you will be fast enough to always make more than enough money.

[F for Fragging]

Pezhetairoi, I've also considered massacring the population, but for that the settlement has to rebel and I have to conquer it again, which might be too costly to do everytime the population has grown too much again (certainly if the settlement has a stone wall). Or do you have some trick to massacre the population without having them rebelling?

Oh, and when I was playing as the Romanii, I had serious difficulty with keeping order in Taras. I had a homeland province constructed there, and I had a full stack as garrison. Still it took quite a lot of turns before public order would be at a normal level.

Cinna, thanks for the advice, I'll try that.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

It could be spies. Enemy spies cause unrest. If you build a spy or two they might be able to find the guy and kick him out. Though I have seen some weird unrest too. Like Taras (as mentioned) is fully Romanized without a trace of Epirus (except the "homeland" building) and it still has unrest.

[F for Fragging]

I'm nearly certain that it wasn't a spy, Syrakousai was neutral and I wasn't at war with Karthadastim or the Romanii, so a spy would be less likely.

I've seen it happen that spies can cause unrest. Once I was playing as Armenia, and had a spy infiltrate Ani Kamah, which was occupied by the Seleucids with a small garrison. The settlement rebelled and joined my faction, which was cool :).

[Gask]

I could never understand why there is no ability to purge a population at need after the initial conquering in this game. There should be negative results of course but being unable to do anything untill you have a full blown rebellion on your hands is absurd.

[Moros]

I could never understand why there is no ability to purge a population at need after the initial conquering in this game. There should be negative results of course but being unable to do anything untill you have a full blown rebellion on your hands is absurd.

Well don't tell us, it's just harcoded, so we can't add that.

About Syracuse well I have no idea, not my territory. But if you can't get a awnser I'll have a look in the files. Maybe they'll reveal something.

[Gask]

It wasnt a request, I am sorry if it seemed that way . Its just fun to complain about unalterable flaws sometimes.

[Moros]

Yeah, I gotta admit that I like complaining. Tough not as much as pie.
If there was only a way to combine pie and gravy. Now that would even surpass EB 1.0!

[Karielle]

Pezhetairoi, I've also considered massacring the population, but for that the settlement has to rebel and I have to conquer it again, which might be too costly to do everytime the population has grown too much again (certainly if the settlement has a stone wall). Or do you have some trick to massacre the population without having them rebelling?

Send a diplomat to an enemy faction, then offer the settlement you want massacred as a gift, without any demands. He should accept it and the garrison in the settlement will move out a ways, leaving the settlement empty.. After that it's just a matter of moving your garrison back in again, and commencing the slaughter!

[Geoffrey S]

Yeah, I gotta admit that I like complaining. Tough not as much as pie.
If there was only a way to combine pie and gravy. Now that would even surpass EB 1.0!

Ever tried a meat pie? Yum.

[Cheexsta]

I've noticed since the first release of EB that many cities have a disproportionate amount of "Unrest" (the little burning icon in the detailed settlement info scroll) that contributes negatively to Public Order. It seems to have happened by accident, but regardless I like it that there are some cities that are very difficult to control.

I'd love to figure out what the cause is, personally. It isn't caused by buildings or traits, so maybe it's some sort of hardcoded resources side-effect. If any EB team member is able to shed some light on it for me it would be appreciated.

[Moros]

Ever tried a meat pie? Yum.

Good, but not the same.

[shlin28]

Same thing happened to me in my carthage campaign, i exterminated Syracuse and kept a general there for couple turns, then moved out.

Then i have to keep it on low tax so it wont rebel. And then only by bulding every happiness building in my arsenal (even the fricking Punic Colony! 12turns!!!!) And now i can only keep it on high tax, if i put it on very high, it riots.

maybe my expectation was too high...

[Obelics]

I've noticed since the first release of EB that many cities have a disproportionate amount of "Unrest" (the little burning icon in the detailed settlement info scroll) that contributes negatively to Public Order. It seems to have happened by accident, but regardless I like it that there are some cities that are very difficult to control.

I'd love to figure out what the cause is, personally. It isn't caused by buildings or traits, so maybe it's some sort of hardcoded resources side-effect. If any EB team member is able to shed some light on it for me it would be appreciated.

from what i recall the unrest icons is caused much when you fresh conquer a town, it tend to disappear after an huge amount of turn. But im not sure of this. Anyway i never had problem with siracuse, not with KH naturally, neither with Kartage and Spqr, it's nice to slowly convert the town to yout own faction and see the town to pacificate. Actually in all my 3 western campaign i have a green face on Siracuse and tax setted on very hight.

edit: what a pity i installed 0.81 on 0.80 and i cant see anymore my old 0.8 campaigns, i could have gone on siracuse and see if there still was some unrest icons, anyway it was becalmed and vh taxes and green faces im sure.

[bovi]

An alternative to giving the city away to retake and exterminate: When approaching critical happiness, move all units out of the city except one. It will riot but not revolt, usually killing off a portion of its inhabitants which improves happiness. Move the garrison back in and repeat as needed. This costs a lot of money for repairing structures damaged in the riots, as opposed to giving you tons of cash when exterminating, so it's less of an exploit.