Roman Recruitment

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

I guess I'm back to reporting bugs here...

I installed 0.81, but kept a version of 0.80 so that I could continue my Roman campaign. I'm in the Marian Era and almost in the Imperial Era, so I thought I would check out recruitment changes. I renamed my .80 UDB and copied in the .81 EDB, then loaded my game.

First off, I like the new unit options. (Not new units, just in more places and some that you could only previously get via briding the enemy.)
Second, in the Marian Era there seems to be something off.
-I can recruit Cohorts and Anstisigati(sp) everywhere, and I mean everywhere. Is this a change because of complaints that people had to ship their Roman units everywhere? Because I thought it was decided that they still had to be Romans in the Roman army at the time so was restricted to Italia.
-If that was on purpose, or regardless, I can't recruit Vigiles everywhere. There are a couple places missing but for the most part recruitment stops at mid Turkey and Syria. If I can recruit Legionaries in Armenia, seems I should be able to recruit Vigiles. Why not give Vigiles a single entry (per tier) in the EDB with no resources required?

I'll report again when I finally get my faction leader to die. (I've given him the plague, twice.)

[cunctator]

Current recruitment was planned since the early days and at least in the post marian cohorts case worked so in 0.74.

After the marian reforms in the times of the great civil wars the romans begun to recruit legionaries in masses outside of Italy were at this time a large number of roman citizens was available. Although in times of emergency the every legionary has to be citizen rule could be handled very flexible. Caesar recruited a legion from gaul, Pompeius several from romans in the east and his governors from former colonists in spain.

In the augustan era legionary recruitment from the provinces was widespread and traditional Italy south of the Po become less and less important. As you can see in the list 125 of 207 agustan legionaries from italy are already from the former province Gallia cisalpina, 127 recruited from all kind of provinces. During the principate recruitment finally shifted to border regions of the empire.

The known homelands of 335 legionaries from the augustan era:


Originally it was planned to have a type 2 government, a heavily romanized province as condition for legionary recruitment, but since building conditions are not longer possible in 1.5 we had to just limit the legionary cohorts to province were you can build a type2.

Vigiles are not professional soldiers just militias from local cities and equipped by them. Outside of the west with it's latin coloies and romanized regions roman style vigiles wouldn't be appropriate. In the east there should be low level greek style militias.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Ok, I don't like it though.

Legionaries from Gaul were probably just from the Narbo area, not newly conquered places. I can now recruit legionaries in areas that were conquered just five years prior...

I think it should still be a core area. I problem is that there is no way of knowing what each individual Roman expansion's core will be. Historically it would have been Italy, Greece, Spain, and Africa. But based on the common AI expansion, it would be Germania.

They still had to be Roman citizen right? And therefore colonists and the rare civilized converts?

I'm probably just angry because I played the whole Marian Era (well my version of it (200BC-140BC)) having to ship the guys everywhere.

I guess due to the restrictions of the game and not knowing where there are and aren't Roman citizens, there is no other way... But if that is the case, why not just give cohorts one entry in the EDB so that it will load unmeasurable faster, since anywhere could be a core territory depending on which way you expanded...

EDIT: I've got an idea. The cohorts are currently available at tier level three, anstiginati at level four. Maybe bump up the distant recruitment. Like outside of the western Mediterranean area you can't recruit legionaries at level three...

[cunctator]

They still had to be Roman citizen right? And therefore colonists and the rare civilized converts?

Generally yes but they are exceptions. Caesar's legio Alaudae, that later become Legio V for example was originally formed completly from non citizens.
Suet. Caesar 24

Encouraged by this, he added to the legions which he had received from the state others at his own cost, one actually composed of men of Transalpine Gaul and bearing a Gallic name too (for it was called Alauda), which he trained in the Roman tactics and equipped with Roman arms; and later on he gave every man of it citizenship.

As you said R:TWs recruitment system is by far to unflexible to really accurately simulate recruitment practises and social changes over 300 years and give the player all the possibilities of historic generals, especially since the course of history can be very different from what happened in RL. Another example would be the static mercenaries.

Orignally it was indeed planned to have marian legionnaries available at lower MIC levels in the homeland than in the provinces but with the new system that was sadly not longer possible too. IT would eather require a new MIC just for Italy and we already ran out of building complexes or building condionals that can cause CTDs.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Orignally it was indeed planned to have marian legionnaries available at lower MIC levels in the homeland than in the provinces but with the new system that was sadly not longer possible too. IT would eather require a new MIC just for Italy and we already ran out of building complexes or building condionals that can cause CTDs.

It would be quite easy to do this. You just go into the EDB and delete all the cohorts from the third level recruitment that have the hidden_resources of non Italy and leave the ones with Italy hidden_resources. They will still be there on the fourth level.

[cunctator]

It would be quite easy to do this. You just go into the EDB and delete all the cohorts from the third level recruitment that have the hidden_resources of non Italy and leave the ones with Italy hidden_resources. They will still be there on the fourth level.

Right, that would be possible. Very good idea! Only problem is that it can't be done automatically as the other recruitment lines.

[cunctator]

One reason to delay the dynamic reforms and have a minimum year requiremnt was to have some time between conquets and the availability of legionaries outside of italy, but after the specific reforms happened that is of ourse not longer the case.

The outside territories far away from Rome and Italy were excluded from legionary recruitment becasue romans will probably only conquer them very late in the campaign, thus don't have time to properly romanize them, especially since these provinces are often steppe or desert and simply very far away from the heartland of roman civilazition. And with such an big empire they will probably have enough resources for more manpower near the theatre of war at this time.