City Mod

**MarcusAureliusAntoninus** · 02-20-2007, 05:23

City Mod
Version 5.1

The 'city mod' is a minimod based on the limitation of city size growth. Because of numerable hardcodings concerning population growth within RTW the only way of effectively stopping city growth is to cap certain cities at certain levels. In this minimod, not many cities can get the 'large' size and only a hand full can reach the 'huge' size. This mod does tend to favour factions that are settled and restricts the steppe factions.

Other than restricting city sizes, I have also added various other modifications that will help to slow city growth. There are also a few unrelated adjustments and modifications to the game such as the removal of roads in certain areas.

I have (will) created two versions of this mod. One (version "a") is the standard version that simple restricts the size of cities for all factions. The second one (version "b") is the Hellenization/Romanization version. In this version, the "barbarian" and steppe factions cannot get over the 'large town' size of settlement. This allows for "civilized" factions to conquer barbarians and upgrade the towns to Hellenic/Roman settlement to represent Hellenization/Romanization of the the populace. This version is admitantly unfair to the "barbarian" factions and shouldn't be played with those factions.

Features:
Version 5.1a
-Restriction of city sizes
-Removal or reduction of some growth bonuses on buildings
-Removal of the ability to build roads in some places
-Law bonuses for the Academy structures

Download:(Version "a")http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...o=file&id=2204

Features:
Version 5.1b
-Restriction of city sizes
-Removal or reduction of some growth bonuses on buildings
-Removal of the ability to build roads in some places
-Law bonuses for the Academy structures
-Restricted the construction of 'city', 'large city', and 'huge city' to "civilized" factions

Download:(Version "b")http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...o=file&id=2205

Install:
Extract the files into your "Rome - Total War" folder and accept saving over old files. This download includes a map.rwm and does not require you to delete yours, to make things simplier.

Uninstall:
To uninstall this minimod, you'll have to reinstall EB or have backed up your files before downloading. To go from version "b" to version "a" just install one version over the other.

Please post feedback, advice, comments, or suggestions.

Older versions:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**MarcusAureliusAntoninus** · 02-20-2007, 05:43

First off, I'm probably going to wait to see if there will be a quickfix released.

Second, this would conflict with other mods, so I'm thinking of making the first cohort "mod" a required.

I'll also be changing some things so that you'll be able to build appropriate buildings in "smaller" cities (Examples: roads available at lower levels, education available lower), as well as some changes to manage squalor. (Examples: doubling garrison bonuses, giving law bonuses to educational facilities, giving extra bonuses to entertainment)

Here are my thoughts on the cities (comments and suggestions welcome, even if you don't plan on downloading this):
Huge City level:
Rome, Athenai, Alexandreia, Seleukeia, Kart-Hadast
Large City level:
-Planned:
Sparte, Pella, Capua, Antiocheia, Damaskos, Pergamon, Sinope, Syrakousai, Baktra
-Maybe:
Korinthos, Taras, Byzantion, Hierosolyma, Memphis, Mastia, Bibracte, Swebotraustastamnoz, Camulosadae, Sarmiszegethusa, "something in Media/Persis/Iran area"
-I've thought about:
Massalia, Susa, Persepolis, Ekbatana, Maryab, Hekatompylos, Oxtraca, Mediolanum
City level:
All but those below.
Restricted toLarge Town level:
Dumatha, Hibis, Ammonium, Augila, Garama, Cydaus, (not important but Tuat and Terhazza as well), maybe some in the plains...
Town level:
Everything can get this

**Christianus** · 02-20-2007, 05:45

This is very desireable indeed. Iwe given it a lot of tought, but I cant mod. Dont think I will start to much either. Anyhow, its weard to have a city as big as for examle Alexandria up in Scandinavia:)

Edit: By the way, I believe Cadiz was quite a big city, so maybe it should be classified as a large city at least...

**Thaatu** · 02-22-2007, 09:25

I'd be supportive (though not in any useful way).

**cunctator** · 02-22-2007, 19:08

Such a mod would be excellent. Maybe it would be a good idea to also cut population growth boni from all buildings as much as possible. Something that is also discussed for future Eb versions. In my current romani campaign Roma is already a huge city - in 260 BC.

Antiochia should be moved to the list of huge cities, it has had several 100.000 inhabitants on it's peak and was one of the greatest cities in the roman empire after Roma and Alexandria.

**Omanes Alexandrapolites** · 02-22-2007, 19:13

Sounds very interesting - this always has been one of my R:TW peeves. Anyhow, the best of luck with it!

**MarcusAureliusAntoninus** · 02-22-2007, 22:02

Antioch huge, hmm?

Currently, as far as growth, I'm planning to: add more happiness/law bonuses to cancel it out, completely redo the granary building tier without growth bonuses, and drop the base farming level even more...
oh and remove some random population growth bonuses like on the trade route...

Does anyone have any suggestions for large cities in Iberia or Iran. Currently Baktra is the only thing that gets big east of Seleukia in my plan. Should I make a city capable to getting large for the Parthians? Also, did the Iberian ever have any large settlements?

What about Armavir? Does it diserve to be large?

**Fondor_Yards** · 02-24-2007, 00:33

Don't forget about North Africa, iirc the only one listed so far is Carthage itself. Some of those should be Large Cities, the land there is very fertile.

**Dumbass** · 03-04-2007, 11:32

I think all the arabian provinces except for maryab, carna and saba should be towns. Maybe you can also disable the ability for towns to build stone walls, and disable a lot of other towns from building stone walls.

**MarcusAureliusAntoninus** · 03-11-2007, 04:38

Ok. I've finally made and uploaded this mod. It is sort of a beta, comments welcome.

/\ See first post. /\

**F for Fragging** · 03-11-2007, 11:54

This mod would fix my greatest annoyance in the game. I was only playing as Romanii for a few years, and Capua was already as populous as Rome, that was ridiculous realism wise. It sucks that in theory every barbarian provincial backwater can become a large settlement. Besides that, growth rates alone seem to be over the top sometimes, with more than 3% in 1 season of a 4 season year.

I think this mod is a great idea, and that this should be integrated in EB. However, you are basing this on research I hope (in the second post you say it's based on your "thoughts")? Not that I am an expert at all on this, but the Sweboz capital, Swebotraustastamnoz, are you seriously considering this as a large city? Would it not have been impossible for a barbarian faction like the Sweboz to have large cities, because they did not have technology like sewers which the more advanced civilisations did have?

BTW, I just d/l'ed and installed over 0.81a. Some files were overwritten, I assume that's ok because this mod is compatible with 0.81a, right?

**Moros** · 03-11-2007, 12:39

BTW, I just d/l'ed and installed over 0.81a. Some files were overwritten, I assume that's ok because this mod is compatible with 0.81a, right?

here's your awnser:

Install instructions:
Have a clean install of EB 0.81a or First Cohorts Mod 1.2
Extract the download to "...\Rome - Total War\"
Delete the "map.rwm" from the "...\Rome - Total War\EB\Data\world\maps\base" folder
Play

**Chuffy** · 03-11-2007, 15:13

This is a fantastic idea, I'd love to say I can help you, but my modding knowledge is non-existent.

DL'ing now.

**MarcusAureliusAntoninus** · 03-11-2007, 20:57

Originally Posted by F for Fragging

This mod would fix my greatest annoyance in the game. I was only playing as Romanii for a few years, and Capua was already as populous as Rome, that was ridiculous realism wise. It sucks that in theory every barbarian provincial backwater can become a large settlement. Besides that, growth rates alone seem to be over the top sometimes, with more than 3% in 1 season of a 4 season year.

I think this mod is a great idea, and that this should be integrated in EB. However, you are basing this on research I hope (in the second post you say it's based on your "thoughts")? Not that I am an expert at all on this, but the Sweboz capital, Swebotraustastamnoz, are you seriously considering this as a large city? Would it not have been impossible for a barbarian faction like the Sweboz to have large cities, because they did not have technology like sewers which the more advanced civilisations did have?

BTW, I just d/l'ed and installed over 0.81a. Some files were overwritten, I assume that's ok because this mod is compatible with 0.81a, right?

On my own version of EB, I don't let 'barbarian' settlements get bigger than 'large_town'. I do this both because I don't feel they would be urbanized to the extent of 'civilized' people and so that when I conquer them, I can Romanize the appearance of their town.

I made the mod with the ability for 'barbarians' to make cities and large cities because if I didn't all the barbarophiles would be angry. There is only one in each area (Britian, Gaul, Germania, Iberia, Dacia) that can become a large_city.

I based the cities that can upgrade on three things. 1- Population in 272BC. 2- Historic populations and 3- Historic importance (even if they weren't huge).

**Gaias** · 03-11-2007, 23:24

Nice idea MarcusAureliusAntoninus.

I was wondering if I could use your city mod in the one that I am developing? I was waiting for your modification as to see what and how you made the changes to affect city growth as I am fairly new at modifying any game myself.

Well download and starting a new campaign to see how it works out.

**kalkwerk** · 03-12-2007, 00:09

Aint got much playtime these days. I shall try it out as soon I get time.
Anthioce and syracuse should be huge cities for historical reasons. Athens actually wasnt very big at the time, so Id say large in that case, but considering the enduring cultural importance it might be huge as well. Id give byzantium the ability to be huge too, to simulate some lateempire trends.

Have you seen any influence on AI expansion/recruitment using this mod?

**MarcusAureliusAntoninus** · 03-12-2007, 05:53

I haven't seen anything that messes with the AI. Since all recruitment buildings are available at any city size and most other buildings are available early, the AI doesn't really change in any way.

Athens definately is there because of its importance, not because of population.

**F for Fragging** · 03-13-2007, 16:31

Originally Posted by Moros

here's your awnser:

Ok, thank you, sorry for not noticing.

Originally Posted by MarcusAureliusAntoninus

On my own version of EB, I don't let 'barbarian' settlements get bigger than 'large_town'. I do this both because I don't feel they would be urbanized to the extent of 'civilized' people and so that when I conquer them, I can Romanize the appearance of their town.

I made the mod with the ability for 'barbarians' to make cities and large cities because if I didn't all the barbarophiles would be angry. There is only one in each area (Britian, Gaul, Germania, Iberia, Dacia) that can become a large_city.

I based the cities that can upgrade on three things. 1- Population in 272BC. 2- Historic populations and 3- Historic importance (even if they weren't huge).

But maybe you could make a separate version for barbarophiles and realismophiles then?

EDIT: BTW, maybe something should be done about the "Grower" trait and "Agriculturalist" ancillary (and possible more governer related stuff which boosts population growth) which boosts the population growth in the settlement, if the governor of that settlement has them? Do they do not interfere with your mod?

**MarcusAureliusAntoninus** · 03-13-2007, 23:06

Originally Posted by F for Fragging

But maybe you could make a separate version for barbarophiles and realismophiles then?

I wish the 'or' command would work so that I could make cities upgrade different for different cultures. (Places where civilized get huge, barbarians get large cities. Places where civilized get large cities, they get cities. And the base for barbarians was 'large_town'.) But it just won't work.

Another problem is if you remove the ability to build the 'city' level from barbarians, you get an error message. There is no actual error, it just gives you the message everytime you exit RomeTW.exe.

Though, maybe I should make an extreme one, with few walls, roads, and 'city' leveled cities.

Originally Posted by F for Fragging

EDIT: BTW, maybe something should be done about the "Grower" trait and "Agriculturalist" ancillary (and possible more governer related stuff which boosts population growth) which boosts the population growth in the settlement, if the governor of that settlement has them? Do they do not interfere with your mod?

Well, those traits can be good. If you want a certain area to grow you can seen such a general to govern that province. But traits do seem to be one of the major reasons of growth in EB. Many times I've had a governor die, in a city that was previously balanced population growth, and have the city with something like -4% growth.

**Dumbass** · 03-15-2007, 20:40

Planning to incorportate or add any more things to this mod?

Like adding law bonuses to schools, removing the huge public health bonuses from buildings or altering them eg. sewers +1 public health -1 squalor. How about adding happiness bonuses to estates, giving them some purpose, or giving law bonuses to walls and MICs.

**MarcusAureliusAntoninus** · 03-15-2007, 22:44

Originally Posted by Dumbass

Planning to incorportate or add any more things to this mod?

Like adding law bonuses to schools, removing the huge public health bonuses from buildings or altering them eg. sewers +1 public health -1 squalor. How about adding happiness bonuses to estates, giving them some purpose, or giving law bonuses to walls and MICs.

There are currently law bonuses on schools in this mod. Plus I doubled the bonuses for garrisons. I converted many of the popultion growth bonuses to happiness and health (health gives happiness, pop growth, and squalor reduction) depending on whether I wanted no growth or just a little. I thought of adding more happiness and law bonuses, but the schools and garrisons already give an additional 20% (over vanilla EB) bonus for highly upgraded cities. Estates are supposted to give negative bonuses and be somewhat unwanted, so i didn't alter them.

There were also slight cuts to base farming (though there is basically nowhere to make cuts there anymore).

**Dumbass** · 03-16-2007, 21:01

Ah cool, hmm, how about some little trait fixes like making lover of beauty less common or not affect command, or making legendary weapons like the spear of achilles a little better than + 1 morale.

**MarcusAureliusAntoninus** · 03-16-2007, 21:15

I haven't changed traits at all. But I was thinking of doing that with the next version, especially farming traits. (I need to upgrade for 081b anyways.) I might alter some other ones when there, but I haven't put too much thought into it...

**Dumbass** · 03-19-2007, 19:04

Any chance of incorporating watchman's mod into city mod?

**MarcusAureliusAntoninus** · 03-20-2007, 03:17

I haven't even looked closely at Watchman's mod. I have been really busy lately. (I had hoped to update the mod already.)

But Watchman's mod is for BI only and this mod so far is still compatible with 1.5...

**Kali** · 03-20-2007, 10:29

Looks like a really good mod,
I see you've included aspects of Cuncators 1st Cohort mod. Any chance you could be more specific.

**MarcusAureliusAntoninus** · 03-20-2007, 22:46

Originally Posted by Kali

Looks like a really good mod,
I see you've included aspects of Cuncators 1st Cohort mod. Any chance you could be more specific.

(That was odd, I pushed submit, the internet hiccuped, and I was back at the thread with no post. But to repeat what was lost...)
I simply used the 1st cohort mod as a base. This mod contains the complete 1st cohort mod with some files changed (and one added) to effect the wanted changes. It contains the entire 1st cohort mod.

**Kali** · 03-21-2007, 10:41

Cheers,
thats what i hoped you'd say.

**Andrea69** · 03-21-2007, 14:21

Hello Marcus

Do you know Metropolis & Naval Mod for RTR? Here you could find some new elements to integrate in your mod.
I mean, for example, a multi-mines system with mines differentiation (copper, gold, silver, iron with different bonuses to each one: copper mines give for example light tax bonus, iron mines give armour bonus which i like a lot). I think it's something that could be definitely done in EB since there is a plenty of mines all over the map except for Italy and few other regions.
Moreover how about a sort of maritime economy system, alternative to the land based economy? From M&N Mod you can easily find the way this approach has been implemented.

**Chuffy** · 03-21-2007, 15:51

Originally Posted by MarcusAureliusAntoninus

I haven't even looked closely at Watchman's mod. I have been really busy lately. (I had hoped to update the mod already.)

But Watchman's mod is for BI only and this mod so far is still compatible with 1.5...

Actually I've been running it in BI and I've encountered no problems or oddities...aside from the Hayasadan CTD...but thats well known.

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