How to get a Templar Knight's Guild?

[CamelGunner]

Hello, first post. I've looked at the FAQ and guides on here a lot, which are awesome btw, but I always get offered the St. John's with the Hospitallers.

Just wondering if anyone has gotten the Templar guild yet and what you did to get it. Thanks in advance.

[SMZ]

crusading is about the only way...

I ended up changing several things as regards the knight orders, because as things stand in vanilla, you have an increased chance of getting hospitallers over templars, the hospitallers fight better (they get a 3rd armor upgrade which the templars don't, and they obey orders which the templars don't), and the st. john's guild house gives a health bonus compared to the templar nothing.... so it really just ends up being a complete templar shafting

if you really want templars though, you can crusade a lot, and eventually you should get them...

[Foz]

Here are a few points yanked straight from Davebaby's Guide To Guilds:

Templars Chapter Houses are restricted to catholic factions only (excluding HRE, Spain and Portugal).
St. John’s Chapter Houses are restricted to catholic factions only (excluding HRE, Spain and Portugal).
Teutonic Knights Chapter Houses are restricted to the HRE only.
Knights of Santiago Chapter Houses are restricted to Spain and Portugal only.

To Gain Crusader Knight’s Guild Points:
General joins crusade: +25 all settlements
General abandons crusade: -25 all settlements
Recruit Specialist Knight: +10 settlement, +1 others (knight type tied to guild type)
Governor Chivalry >4: +5 settlement (per turn)

St. John's guild get a +10 settlement, +1 others bonus when the settlement has muslim neighbours (for each settlement, each turn)
St. John's guild get a +10 bonus for all settlements when you declare war on a muslim faction.
Teutonic guild get a +10 settlement, +1 others bonus when the settlement has pagan neighbours (for each settlement, each turn)

The whole guide can be found here: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=75649

So yeah to get Templar you can join up a lot of generals to go crusading, or if you're a little more patient/sane you can park a high chivalry general in the castle (they're castle only) you want the chapter house in, and wait for him to build up the points for you (5 every turn). Probably doing them in combination is the best. If you get offered the wrong chapter house, just reject it, you should be very near (if not at already) enough points for the one you want, which should be offered soon. You should also note that you may only have one type of them in your entire empire (except if you capture them, I suppose), so don't take Templars if you really want St. Johns, and vice versa: you can't get offered the other once you take one.

[CamelGunner]

Ah, one type in the entire empire, cool, thanks for that.

[sapi]

Welcome to the org mate

[sbroadbent]

So yeah to get Templar you can join up a lot of generals to go crusading, or if you're a little more patient/sane you can park a high chivalry general in the castle (they're castle only) you want the chapter house in, and wait for him to build up the points for you (5 every turn).

Unless it has something to do with my game being unmodded/unpatched, I was offered a Knights Templar guid in Inverness which was a city at the time as far as I'm aware. Yes, I know Inverness is quite distant, and it did come relatively early.

[SMZ]

the knight orders can be in cities too, that was a mistake

[Lorenzo_H]

I recently completed a Spanish campaign and did all the Crusades offered to me apart from one. I didn't get Knights of Santiago even once. I'm kind of annoyed but glad I won the campaign.

[Skyline Pete]

Whereas at the very start of my Danish campaign I took a rebel castle and was offered a choice of the two different religious chapters.

Wanting Templars this time I declined the Hospitalliers and was offered the Templars straight after.

[HoreTore]

Well.. Being Crusaderhappy doesn't mean crusadng when the pope asks you... It means asking for a new crusade every single time you can...

[gardibolt]

I like to build Knights order buildings in cities rather than castles, so you get a useful military unit out of a city and take some of the production stress off the castles.

[Foz]

I like to build Knights order buildings in cities rather than castles, so you get a useful military unit out of a city and take some of the production stress off the castles.

If they count as knights then castles are probably better since you can build tourney fields to up their starting experience in a castle. Of course I don't have production management problems b/c I modded castles to get progressively more recruitment slots at higher levels, as the descriptions seem to suggest should be the case.

[hode]

You're more likely to get these guilds in cities that border a non-catholic faction.

[CamelGunner]

Ok, thanks for all the input guys, it helps alot..

So should I destroy all my hospitaller guilds and then hope I get the Templars?

I just have a ton of hospitallers in the holy land as the British and I wanted to get some Templars down there to give them Mongols a good old fashioned fish 'n chips beatin'....

[Foz]

Ok, thanks for all the input guys, it helps alot..

So should I destroy all my hospitaller guilds and then hope I get the Templars?

I just have a ton of hospitallers in the holy land as the British and I wanted to get some Templars down there to give them Mongols a good old fashioned fish 'n chips beatin'....

type             Knights Hospitaller
dictionary       Knights_Hospitaller      ; Knights Hospitaller
category         cavalry
class            heavy
voice_type       Heavy
banner faction   main_cavalry
banner unit      hospitaller
soldier          Knights_Hospitaller, 32, 0, 1
mount            barded horse
mount_effect     elephant -4, camel -4
attributes       sea_faring, hide_forest, hardy, can_withdraw, can_formed_charge, knight, free_upkeep_unit
formation        2, 4.4, 3, 6, 2, square, wedge
stat_health      1, 0
stat_pri         13, 8, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, spear, 25, 1
;stat_pri_ex      0, 0, 0
stat_pri_attr    no
stat_sec         14, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, sword, 25, 1
;stat_sec_ex      0, 0, 0
stat_sec_attr    no
stat_pri_armour  9, 7, 0, metal
;stat_armour_ex   7, 8, 9, 0, 5, 4, 4, metal
stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
stat_heat        5
stat_ground      0, -2, -4, 0
stat_mental      11, normal, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 45
stat_fire_delay  0
stat_food        60, 300
stat_cost        1, 880, 250, 130, 100, 880, 4, 220
armour_ug_levels 3, 4, 5
armour_ug_models Knights_Hospitaller, Knights_Hospitaller_ug1, Knights_Hospitaller_ug2
ownership        england, scotland, france, denmark, milan, venice, papal_states, sicily, poland, hungary
;unit_info        13, 0, 16

type             Knights Templar
dictionary       Knights_Templar      ; Knights Templar
category         cavalry
class            heavy
voice_type       Heavy
banner faction   main_cavalry
banner unit      templars
soldier          Knights_Templar, 32, 0, 1
mount            mailed horse
mount_effect     elephant -4, camel -4
attributes       sea_faring, hide_forest, hardy, can_withdraw, can_formed_charge, knight, free_upkeep_unit
formation        2, 4.4, 3, 6, 2, square, wedge
stat_health      1, 0
stat_pri         13, 8, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, spear, 25, 1
;stat_pri_ex      0, 0, 0
stat_pri_attr    no
stat_sec         14, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, sword, 25, 1
;stat_sec_ex      0, 0, 0
stat_sec_attr    no
stat_pri_armour  9, 7, 0, metal
;stat_armour_ex   7, 8, 0, 0, 5, 4, 4, metal
stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
stat_heat        5
stat_ground      0, -2, -4, 0
stat_mental      11, impetuous, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 45
stat_fire_delay  0
stat_food        60, 300
stat_cost        1, 880, 250, 130, 100, 880, 4, 220
armour_ug_levels 3, 4
armour_ug_models Knights_Templar, Knights_Templar_ug1
ownership        england, scotland, france, denmark, milan, venice, papal_states, sicily, poland, hungary
;unit_info        13, 0, 16

So... I guess you can get Templars if you really want, but in practicality they are nearly duplicates of each other. Templar may charge w/o orders and sometimes not follow orders though, which Hospitallers do not do (they're good boys). Also, Hospitallers have an extra level of armor upgrade that Templar do not have, and the Hospitaller chapter houses give a health bonus to the settlement where Templar houses do nothing good. So all in all you should keep your Hospitaller houses b/c they have several advantages over Templar, while Templar have none over them.

[napoleon526]

I've gotten the Templars only once or twice, but i'm wondering if there's a time limit on when you can get them, since i've only been offered them early in the game. It would make sense if the game only allowed them in the early game, since the real Templars were wiped out in 1307, while the Knights of St. John existed on Malta until 1798, and I think they still exist in some form today.

[gardibolt]

If they count as knights then castles are probably better since you can build tourney fields to up their starting experience in a castle. Of course I don't have production management problems b/c I modded castles to get progressively more recruitment slots at higher levels, as the descriptions seem to suggest should be the case.

Experience was useful in RTW, but it was nerfed so much in M2TW I don't pay much attention to it any more.