Problem in battle replays

**Melea Lord** · 02-20-2007, 20:03

I didn't know where to put this:
I thought replays were meant to return exactly what happened in the battle yet in the battle I lost but in the replay I was winning when it said "Replay finished" just as I was chargeing 4 last soldiuers of the enemy whom were meant to be around twelve watching mine flee!! I have edited most of the soldiers def and attks but that shouldn't change the replay should it. It's just a recording, right?

**Omanes Alexandrapolites** · 02-20-2007, 20:05

Hi there,
I'm not sure, yet, I believe, that replays only last a certain length of time. When they finish they stop recording the battle. Hope this is useful to you, cheers!

Edit, sorry, misunderstood you

**Severous** · 02-21-2007, 01:31

Results can change..and dramatically.

A multiplayer game where two humans defended against a bigger CPU force won when played. Player teams were crushed when the saved movie was replayed.

**mightilyoats** · 02-21-2007, 07:40

We will need CA on this one, but here is my guess. To save a reply, the game does not save frames, but rather the moves performed (with I presume the random seed used for the battle). This is clear from the fact that you can move the camera during the replay. So the battle is saved as a sort of script, with the game assuming that if this script is run, the battle will play out in exactly the same manner as before. (It makes sense to me anyway).

This will only work if all parameters are exactly the same as before. If you fight a battle, save it, and then mod some of the units in the battle... Then there is no way it will happen the same way as before. (Assuming of course that everything I have said so far is correct)

I will test it tonight...

**Melea Lord** · 02-21-2007, 18:02

So my changes to the units make the scripts not work? Why can't they just make sure each indiviual soldiuer does the exact same thing as in sheild up here, sword in him, arrow in back, stumbles, stabbed? Why ain't it just a simple recording!?

**guineawolf** · 02-22-2007, 05:57

Originally Posted by Melea Lord

I didn't know where to put this:
I thought replays were meant to return exactly what happened in the battle yet in the battle I lost but in the replay I was winning when it said "Replay finished" just as I was chargeing 4 last soldiuers of the enemy whom were meant to be around twelve watching mine flee!! I have edited most of the soldiers def and attks but that shouldn't change the replay should it. It's just a recording, right?

I also have met same problem,but i do not edit any data file.The replay do not played as what exactly happen in the battle,my situation is,

1-i played german and spain team VS britons,gauls,dacia,schytia team(huge unit scale size),result is the spain take out 700 BGDS force,then completely defeated and flee from the field.But in the replayed?It showed that spain defeat all BGDS force and flee them.....

2-i played german with AI britons,AI gauls VS Roman Julii and Brutii(huge).
Results is me germans and gauls completely routed those brutii,then we go together engage the julii,and finally crushed the julii.
In the replayed?when my german force turned to julii,the brutii still exist and fighting those already flee Britons.......

**mightilyoats** · 02-22-2007, 06:11

I did the following test: 1 hastati vs. 1 Iberian infantry on medium difficulty. Large unit size. The hastati killed most of the Iberian Infantry, then the infantry routed.

After saving the battle, I viewed the replay. No problems, it all went the same.

Next I changed the Iberian Infantry. Made them stronger (more attack and better armor). When I view the replay now, I get WARNED by the game that the battle will not be the same (because I changed the export_descr_units file) In the replay the Iberian infantry killed the Hastati.

What I didn't check is what happens if you change the unit size and/or difficulty levels. I believe those two factors can also have an effect on the replay.

**mightilyoats** · 02-23-2007, 05:57

Unit size and difficulty has no effect on the battle replays. It seems to be only modding that confuses it. From what you guys said, it would seem that large battles creates a problem. I haven't tried that yet because my DVD got damaged :(

**Lusted** · 02-23-2007, 12:57

The problem occurs even if unmodded. The game does not save an exact recrodign. If it did replay files would be HUGE. It just saves the moves you make and the basic random seeds for the combat calculations and ai movement.

**mightilyoats** · 02-23-2007, 14:08

Jip, I agree with Lusted. I believe that the more soldiers in the battle, the bigger the chances that the replay won't work.

**Melea Lord** · 02-23-2007, 15:24

But that sucks! I'm just not gonna bother saving replays.

**Gunther** · 02-23-2007, 15:53

yeah, replays are dicey sometimes. I don't mess with them unless I had a huge and unexpected success. I mean, they're cool to have if you want to study how the game works or brag to your friends, but you'll never get the exact same thing again. Not unless you use a separate program to copy the battle. I know they're out there, my bro used to use them to record his counter-strike matches (this was when 1.5 was out and cheaters ran rampant) so it can be done....but it's not always worth it to have the perfect replay...plus you don't get to roam the map.

**adembroski** · 02-24-2007, 21:47

Ack... meant for M2:TW, but I guess the replay system is the same in both.

Glad I found this thread... wow, I was kinda freaking out on this. Didn't think anyone was going to believe me.

I had a 180 in my replay. I went from absolutely destroying my opponent to being routed.

The early part of the battle went fine... replicated exactly. The germans attempted to break my line using hangunners and crossbowmen, slowly depleting my infantry troops. I was successfully holding them off for the most part with cannons and sherwood archers along with a unit of arquebusers on each flank. Being that the germans were trying to break my center, this allowed me to wrap around and have fire from 3 sides. Their main force held back.

In time, my line did deplete, but by that time I'd caused so many routing missile troops their infantry had been effected. They tried to attack but everytime they got close, I'd counter charge with my cavalry (they had mostly heavy infantry, no spears). Eventually they had little infantry left, though I didn't either, it was down to my cavalry, missiles, and artillery vs. their cavalry and artillery (half of which i'd already knocked out).

This is where it changed. The HRE cavalry charge the first time around had been split wide in order to do the military equivalent of an offensive lineman "blocking down". The inner most formation on my right flank was aiming toward my general, in the middle of my army. This allowed me to flank these units as the passed by charging directly ahead, provided I timed it right... which I did. I successfully charged the flanks of 3 units of heavy cavalry on my right flank, sending them all scurrying for the hills.

In the replay, the counter charge was miss-timed. The middle unit of my counter charge was a few seconds early, charging right into the path of one of the HRE cavalry. This caused a clusterf*ck with the next unit toward the flank, and prevented the counter charger from gaining any steam. The initial HRE cavarly hit my general square and nailed him, effectively routing the remainder of my army.

**mightilyoats** · 02-27-2007, 10:50

Some units have the trait that they "might charge without orders"... The question is, *Will* they charge, or *might* they. If it is not certain, it means there is some kind of random element that makes them decide. Thus, if a battle is replayed, those "impetuous" units could turn out to do something completely different.

I always assumed that the random seed is saved with the replay, but is there any possibility that some random elements could have been overlooked?

Another possibility... On the CPU, seeing as the game must be multi threaded, I would say there is a very good chance that the actual processing does not happen in the precise same order as before. This will also have an adverse effect on the random seed thing...

Anyway, enough stabbing at empty air... We all agree that replays don't turn out exactly the way we expect them to.