Hypothetical Scenario

[Cronos Impera]

Imagine this:
You are a succesful designer and artist. A guy enters your gallery and buys one of your artworks. Later he covers his whole house with that particular design. Than he thinks about killing a group of people and succeads in his plans. Than he gets convicted and executed for his crimes.
Than......a group of idiotic bigots that call themselves "Civil Rghts Activists" decide the designs in his house are "symbols of hatred and murder' and bans them.And the victims's fammilies agree with them and you are thrown into the Recycle Bin of history.
Belive it, this thing has happened before with the swastika and the fasces and the red star and all things before.A confirmation that without any exception whatsoever, man has always been in a form or another a bigot, and bigotry isn't an exception, it's a general rule applied by both victims and executioners. It is sad that in the West...the so-called hub of civilization all meanings get deformed and twisted in such a way that anything valuable is thrown in the dirt and we call that "multiculturalism".

Now if you're allready bored of this post....and me in particular(I know you are) lets start discussing less philosophycal things and more facts.

The colour red has always been the prefered one of revolutionaries throught the world. Why? Because it symbolises fire and fire means change. All revolutionary ideologies from republicanism, to bolshevism and national-socialism embraced red and white colours. Should we ban those because on the WW2 Nazi flag they encircled the swastika? Or should we ban the skull and two crossed bones because SS officers had those on their hats. If thus, than pirates should have their logo censured as well.
Why must a symbol be censored because some hippy bigots are too narrow-minded to accept the fact that a symbol can have multiple meanings. Today's political-corectness is just another form of bigotism imposed over anothers.


Take another example: MISA (The Movement for Spiritual Integration Into Absolutism) founded by Gregorian Bivolaru.A well-known New Age sect, this one urges its followers to drink urine and heve group-sex. The movement has adopted The Star of David for its banner and if the self-righteous political correct trends continue the next time this movement does something really stupid and violent the Mosaic religion won't be able to use it's main icon anymore. They'll tear up shrines and ban the symbol from Bibles.....that is the world created by narrow-minded bigots who can't distinguish multiple senses.

[Kralizec]

Merkel IIRC tried to push for a EU swatsika ban recently (haven't been following the news very well as of late)
The effort stranded, among other reasons, because the swatsika is a religious symbol for Hindus. It's not all bad.

What I'm bothered more about is the double standard - swatsikas, unless in a Hindu or pre-1900 context are considered an evil symbol, while there are plenty of morons who go around wearing T-shirts with the hammer and sickle.

[Vuk]

I don't know why WIKI doesn't have it, but it was also a religious symbol of some American Indians. The Europeans were trying to market Indian rugs, but the Indian designs were not selling nearly as well as the ones from the Orient and Europe, so the Westeners introduced to the Indians the symbols that they are now associated with. One of those being a swastika. The Indians then incorparated those symbols into their culture and religion. It is funny, because all the "Indian" designs you see come from either the Orient or Europe. Those were not the design that Indians originally made on the stuff, but ones introduced by westerners to increase the value of their trade goods. Found that rather funny. :P

[Papewaio]

And Buddhists... a lot of Vegetarian Buddhist restaurants have that symbol here... hardly a banned item.

In a particular configuration it is a brand mark for a hate group. Companies have exclusive rights to their brand logos too... you can brand letters/words in a colour combination... for instance a large M in yellow belongs to a particular group.

To deny that a symbol in a particular configuration has a particular meaning is to deny language.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Isn't the religious swastika arranged so that the arms are at 12, 3, 6 and 9, while the Nazi one is slanted? So you could ban one and not the other.

Better not to disallow either, of course. I hope our government would tell the EU where to go if they proposed a general ban.

[ShadeHonestus]

Try living in the states where Christopher Columbus personally killed millions of natives and the confederate flag itself runs the streets trying to enslave people.

[Strike For The South]

Try living in the states where Christopher Columbus personally killed millions of natives and the confederate flag itself runs the streets trying to enslave people.

Not the dumbest thing I've ever heard but damn close

[AntiochusIII]

I don't know why WIKI doesn't have it, but it was also a religious symbol of some American Indians. The Europeans were trying to market Indian rugs, but the Indian designs were not selling nearly as well as the ones from the Orient and Europe, so the Westeners introduced to the Indians the symbols that they are now associated with. One of those being a swastika. The Indians then incorparated those symbols into their culture and religion. It is funny, because all the "Indian" designs you see come from either the Orient or Europe. Those were not the design that Indians originally made on the stuff, but ones introduced by westerners to increase the value of their trade goods. Found that rather funny. :P

The HELL!?

You are claiming the Indians put the swastika pattern in their culture to impress the Europeans and frickin' sell their rugs, yeah...

Sorry, but I don't think it's a very strong claim.

I think the issue with some symbols is their resurrection by the young who don't know, or don't care, about the evil done under that banner. Symbols are incredibly powerful, and time does not necessarily diminish that power. It is dangerous to overlook that power and its hold on the unimaginative. Symbols represent ideas, and ideas are the most powerful things on earth.

If you mean the skinheads who think wearing the Nazi swastika, tattoo it, etc., are cool; well...

They don't exactly make people shine with rebellious pride, or disturbed beyond reason of the heralding return of the Nazi regime; but they aren't very pleasant either. I'm afraid of them, though; they could beat the **** out of me.

The best way to destroy a symbol's power -- which I agree with you exists -- is to break the taboo associated with it. Destroy the symbolism, and the lines on the board will become what they really are: the lines on the board.

The question remains on when is the precise time where the taboo should be broken. It's a delicate question, with factors ranging from the intensity of the conflicts and ideology associated with the symbol to the lifespan of the participants, among many other things, down to pure guesswork; but I think, for the case of the swastika, that a generation is enough. The ban in Europe overstays its uses in my opinion. There ought to be a balance between delicate sensibilities and principles of freedom somewhere.

[Vuk]

The HELL!?

You are claiming the Indians put the swastika pattern in their culture to impress the Europeans and frickin' sell their rugs, yeah...

What people think of as "Indian" designs are not. They are mostly Oriental, Indian, (note the distinction) and European. (Almost ALL Oriental and Indian)
I think you have seen a little to many 90's Westerns...

[ShadeHonestus]

I have to back Anti up on this one a little bit from my study of Native American cultures. Many of the designs in culturally distinctive NA weavings actually have their source in the language. You can look at the Dakota language as a sound color language and their decorations on everything as an extension of that. The SW Native Americans who are recognized the most for their weaving has its foundation in their religion, language and culture with nothing borrowed outside of its Native trade structures. The swastika as found in Native American art has been traced to a very old pre-contact independent emergence. The type of thing we see with pyramid building and other forms of architecture and art that appears at different stages of cultural development but independent of contact between these cultures.

[Tuuvi]

Today's political-corectness is just another form of bigotism imposed over anothers.

That is one of the best statements I have ever read.