Nationalized Health Care

[gunslinger]

I'm a fairly recent addition to the backroom, but I must admit that I'm enjoying the discussions here very much. Recently I read a post in which the author expressed amazement that Americans don't even have free health care. This is a debate which has been going on for some time in America. The liberals often point to Canada and say that they want to create a national health care based on the Canadian system. The conservatives then point to Canada and say that their system is broken and worthless. They say that the wait to see a doctor is so long that for most ailments you will either get better on your own or develop a life-threatening crisis (which moves you up in line) before you see the doc. We are also told that in response to this, illegal storefront clinics have opened up in Canada to handle the overflow, and that the government doesn't force them to close because they realize that their own medical facilities are not sufficient. The upshot is that Canadians pay huge taxes to support National Health care, but then end up paying again at these illegal and unregulated clinics because they can't get access to the National Health Care. I'm not saying any of this is true. I'm only repeating the propaganda we are fed.

I would like to hear from citizens of countries that do have a nationalized health care system. I would like to know how the system works. How do you go about seeing a doctor? Do you have your own doctor who is familiar with your history? Do you have to pay anything for medical care or prescriptions? How long does it take to get in? To see a specialist?

I will add (for those who don't know) that in the U.S. all hospital emergency rooms are required to provide life-saving and child delivery services regardless of the patient's ability to pay. Also, if I owe the hospital $10,000 I can offer to pay them off at the rate of $10 per month without interest, and they must accept it. The shortfalls that the hospital incurs due to this are then, of course, passed on to paying customers. I only mention this so that those of you from countries with free health care will understand that we aren't total barbarians leaving people to die on the front steps of the hospital.

If my fellow Americans don't mind, can we keep to ourselves our own opinions about what America should do until we have some firsthand accounts of the reality of National Healthcare?

[Randarkmaan]

I haven't been to much at hospitals or with doctors, to be honest as I'm remarkably healthy for some reason But I can see the benefits of free healthcare in that you don't have to pay (except the tax ofcourse) in order to receive treatment. The hospitals here in Norway are pretty good on the whole, but they do in fact suffer from the problem that in the recent years more bureaucrats than nurses (especially nurses, who often have to work overtime) and doctors have been employed, and yes lines can get pretty long. I can't give much firsthand accounts, I've only been to a hospital a few times and it went well and my parents didn't have to pay (I was 5 one time and 8 the other time), and I don't talk to people about it that often either. Anyway despite long lines and, in some cases and countries, ridiculous bureacracy I don't feel that abandoning public healthcare in favor of private hospitals where you can get help fast, if you can pay, is a solution the majority can benefit from, rather more money should be used to improve the public hospitals. The taxes needed to support this are ofcourse not low, they support other things as well such as various welfare services, schools, roads and stuff, but still there aint really a whole lot of people who are suffering because of it, most poor people are affected more by a poorly paid job or no job at all than they are by taxes.

Not that much and probably doesen't give that much information, but its my opinion, or at least parts of it.

[Ice]

No. Leave it in the private sector. Make health care more affordable with incentives (Tax breaks, Deductibles.. etc).

[Papewaio]

Australia has national health care.

You can use private health if you want to. And above certain incomes you have to take out private health insurance or pay more in medicare taxes.

Essentially you go to your local Dr and the bulk billing (government subsidies) pays for the cost of it... unless you choose a Dr who charges extra, in which case you have to cover the difference. Specialists are different, and unless you are on a very low income, only a portion will be covered... sometimes it is better to use medicare then private health insurance to pay the difference.

Have the option of using public or private hospitals. Generally however if there is an issue with pregnancy the women will be sent to the public hospitals... as the government ones are run better for emergencies while the private ones are just better at privacy for recovery. Doctors will often work at both public, private and teaching hospitals.

Also we have pseudo-free university education... but thats another topic.

[gunslinger]

Specialists are different, and unless you are on a very low income, only a portion will be covered... sometimes it is better to use medicare then private health insurance to pay the difference.

I'm a bit unclear on your meaning here. Is medicare something you can purchase from the government that goes above and beyond the standard benefits everyone gets? Also, do you know what percentage of salaries goes toward medical taxes?

[Papewaio]

Medicare is a tax. The Medicare levy is 1.5% of your taxable income. If you have a high taxable income but no private health cover then you pay an extra 1% (for freeloading).

If you are on a low income/pension you pay no levy.

[lars573]

I'm a fairly recent addition to the backroom, but I must admit that I'm enjoying the discussions here very much. Recently I read a post in which the author expressed amazement that Americans don't even have free health care. This is a debate which has been going on for some time in America. The liberals often point to Canada and say that they want to create a national health care based on the Canadian system. The conservatives then point to Canada and say that their system is broken and worthless. They say that the wait to see a doctor is so long that for most ailments you will either get better on your own or develop a life-threatening crisis (which moves you up in line) before you see the doc. We are also told that in response to this, illegal storefront clinics have opened up in Canada to handle the overflow, and that the government doesn't force them to close because they realize that their own medical facilities are not sufficient. The upshot is that Canadians pay huge taxes to support National Health care, but then end up paying again at these illegal and unregulated clinics because they can't get access to the National Health Care. I'm not saying any of this is true. I'm only repeating the propaganda we are fed.

Italics: Myth number 1. That rarely (1 or 2 people a year) happens. Now I can imagine that opponents of socialized health schemes in the US would latch on to that. My grandmother needed to have plastic knees installed. Took 2 years for both. She had one done then waited about a year for the next one. She could still walk with a cane. She went and saw her orthopedic specialist every few weeks. My old supervisors wife had a tumour in her limphnodes. As soon as their doctor found it she was in surgery to remove it in the next 2 days. So you see my grandmother waited for a year so that poeple with cancer could get in their first.

Bolds: Illegal clinics? Myth number 2. Quebec has allowed a private surgery clinic in Montreal to open to handle some over flow. Nova Scotia has a private MRI clinic to open in Halifax. All of which opened with the Provincial governments permission.

The problem we have is, like Gorebag said, that doctors leave. So if you don't have a GP most (mistakenly) go to the ER. We have drop in clinics for those without GP's. But many don't know that.

I would like to hear from citizens of countries that do have a nationalized health care system. I would like to know how the system works. How do you go about seeing a doctor? Do you have your own doctor who is familiar with your history? Do you have to pay anything for medical care or prescriptions? How long does it take to get in? To see a specialist?

Canada's syetem is a public insurance scheme. Where each province runs a medical insurance program. That is funded by taxes and free of charge. The public insurance covers, GP visits, nessisary surgery, hospital stays in none private rooms, and covers part of perscription costs. You have to pay out of pocket for eye care, dental care, elective surgery, and the rest of perscription costs. Now if you work for a company that gives you a health plan most of these costs can be covered. My mom works for the school board as an EPA and gets blue cross coverage (reimburment) as part of her salary. For me to see a doctor is relatively easy. I call our GP office. Schedule an appoitment and go. If I didn't have a GP I'd have to find out where the drop in clinic is and go there.

[Adrian II]

I don't understand the problem with 'seeing your GP'. Dutch GP's are in business at 7.30 or 8.00 sharp. First thing in the morning they have a 'walk-in hour' for all patients who have acute problems or tight schedules. After that they make their rounds of non-mobile patients. 'Seeing your GP' is no issue here.

[lars573]

For us "your GP" is the doctor with whom your medical records are on file. And one GP or GP office (which has several doctors) can only carry so many patients.

[Scurvy]

British GP's are'nt very good, they make you wait for hours, then tell you to go see a real doctor

The NHS is a neccessity, but the idea of it being "free" is slightly misleading...

[Dave1984]

I think the main gripe I have with the NHS here in the UK is how loooong everything takes. Usually I don't mind because I'm healthy and all, and like someone said emergencies are dealt with fairly quickly, but for anything else the waiting list can be years and years if you're unlucky. My mother is terminally ill although you'd never know it to look at her, she keeps incredibly fit (mainly to help with dealing with the disease) and so can function in the main as a normal healthy person, but I'm certain that if she'd had all the treatments and operations so far on the NHS, she'd be dead. For the most recent problem which hospitalised her on Sunday, they told her that they could do a kind of placeholder surgery but couldn't do anything actually effective for another 9 months because of the waiting lists.
Fortunately my father (who she's divorced from) put her on his medical insurance so she's getting the full operation privately within the week.

Aside from the terrible inefficiency, huge waiting lists and the fact that about 75% of the time you can't get a doctor who speaks English, I think the major problem with it is that you have to pay for it anyway, even if you pay medical insurance as well to get private treatment. Why can't we pay for that INSTEAD of the NHS? It just doesn't make sense.

[Adrian II]

For us "your GP" is the doctor with whom your medical records are on file. And one GP or GP office (which has several doctors) can only carry so many patients.

Same here. 'My GP' is the one who holds my records, who knows me and my family from previous occasions, etcetera. Like practically every GP in The Netherlands, he opens shop at 7.30 or 8.00 hrs and everyone with an acute problem or tight (work) schedule can come and get a consultation.
And why not? What is the problem in other countries? Morning sickness?

[lars573]

Same here. 'My GP' is the one who holds my records, who knows me and my family from previous occasions, etcetera. Like practically every GP in The Netherlands, he opens shop at 7.30 or 8.00 hrs and everyone with an acute problem or tight (work) schedule can come and get a consultation.
And why not? What is the problem in other countries? Morning sickness?

Well in Canada there aren't enough of any kind of Doctors to go round. And most GP's work 9-5, mon-fri.