Quickest collapse you've seen?

[Innocentius]

Well, I've seen the French empire turn almost completely rebel or struck by re-emergensies in three years several times. The usually conquer all of Britain, most of Germany, the Iberian and some Italian states, reach the Anatolia through northern Africa and conquer most it. By then they get involved in war with some lesser catholic faction, get excommunicated and fall apart in within a couple of years.

[Martok]

Oh goodness. I've witnessed a number of swift/massive collapses in my 4+ years of playing this game. Probably one of the most memorable (and most spectacular) for me, though, would be the Spanish in one of my Egyptian campaigns.

As the Fatamids (XL Mod), I had secured control of the Great Triangle (all the lands between Egypt, Georgia, and Constantinople). I also held a few additional provinces beyond that - mainly in the Balkans, plus a couple of the islands in the eastern Med - and had already achieved superpower status with respect to the other factions.

Well as it turned out, Castille-Leon had gone berzerk in the western half of the map. By the time I really became aware of what they were doing, they'd already conquered Iberia, most of France, the British Isles, northern Italy, and all of North Africa (save for Egypt itself).

It was the latter theatre of operations that had me especially concerned. Not only did they have a good-sized navy sailing much of the Mediterranean, but the Castille-Leonese were also threatening Cairo with an impressive army they had stationed in Cyrenacia. It was around 6000-strong, and it actually was made up of pretty decent troops - only about 2000 of them were UM, archers, and vanilla spearmen. The rest of their army mostly consisted of FMAA, FS, MS, a couple RK's, and an absurd number of Jinnettes. (Oh yeah, and it was under the command of El Cid's successor, so he had 7 stars when attacking!)

This was an army that could do serious damage to my Caliph's empire. Now granted, I myself had garrisoned Egypt with an army of 3500 troops (consisting of my best units available) and under the command of my best general (6-stars); but the Spanish still had me greatly concerned.

Fortunately, however, they completely shot themselves in the foot. Using their massive army in Cyrenacia as its core, they used the excuse of a Crusade to march on Jerusalem via Cairo. I surprised myself by routing the Castillans utterly -- I think the kill ratio was something like 4500 to 800 in my favor -- and their Crusade fell apart a couple years later. At the same time, the Pope excommed them (I think for aggression against the Danes, if I recall correctly). The excommunication combined with the failure of the Crusade caused the Spanish to fall into civil war. The Almos, Aragon, French, and Portuguese all re-emerged; and Castille-Leon never threatened me again.

[Odin]

The HRE has collapsed many times via civil war that its hard for me to remember the most dramatic.

However I do recall a game when the Byzantines had wiped the middle east clean of the turks and eggies and was poised to move into the steppes via the back door of Kazar. The sicillians in all thier wisdom attack and after a few back and forths in Greece the Byzantines loose thier foothold in the balkans.

The feeding frenzy moved on from there, the Cumans who had removed the Hungarians swept down into Bulgaria and, yep the egyptians reappeard in egypt with a massive stack. The emperor dies and a new one is enthroned in constantanople and has a 5 star rating (weak by Byz standards). The sicillians cut off thier fleets and basically surrounded Constantanople. The invade along with the Cumans and a three way tussle ensues, the Byzantines loose Cumans seige the citadel and a few years later the emperor is killed in battle message pops up, no heirs and what was left goes rebel.

Of note was the spectacular battle of Constantanople, it had 3 religous factions all going for the big prize, while I didnt watch the battle, I almost wish I had. the cumans and sicillians were not allied so it was a 3 way slugfest, it was before 1205 so the catholics didnt have any arblasters, I would have loved to have seen the Cuman horse tactics against the heavy armor of the Byz, with the back drop of catholic militias.

This was with the XL mod.

[Deus ret.]

I would have loved to have seen the Cuman horse tactics against the heavy armor of the Byz, with the back drop of catholic militias.

What a slugfest! I'm sure it would have been interesting to behold, but in the absence of arbs, it's the Cumans who are somewhat overpowered in XL early because of their ridiculously cheap (and low-tech) but absolutely devastating Cuman Heavy Cavalry, in fact the equal of Chivalric Knights. Consequently, it was them who ended up sieging the big C.....they tend to grow strong in XL in early.

My nicest enemy empire collapse was when I played the Aragonese back in vanilla (good ol' days ) and as always the Egyptians were eating everyone in their way. After cleverly waiting for the Byz and Turks to battle it out, they just swallowed the victor (Byz) and went nuts from there on. They didn't even build their typical giant peasant armies, so actually were a threat to reckon with. When they owned North Africa up to Morocco, half the steppes, the former Byz share of the Balcans and one or two stray provinces (among them Sicily!), I decided that something would have to be done. I sent a massive crusade bolstered generously with extra troops from Aragon (I owned Iberia and most of France) oversea when the Eggies finally left that gap in their line of ships.

What followed were the five or six longest turns I ever played, or so they seemed to me. Not only did our navies contest each and every sea square (a contest which I barely managed to win, mostly because my supply worked better), but the battles in the Holy Land were outstanding. I can't recall how many battles I fought with my isolated crusader force in Antioch, their numbers dwindling with each battle -....well five probably...- but I killed the Sultan twice who was foolish enough to lead his troops into battle himself, including his own 7-star jedi general . On turn 5, I took the opportunity to asassinate the Egyptian heir deeming himself safe in the Sinai - and bang, Egypt falls into a HUGE civil war and in the span of three more years the Turks and the Byz had reappeared, and their steppe holdings were largely lost to a Russian loyalist rebellion. Egypt was now (and until they were extinct) reduced to Arabia, more or less.

In retrospect I'm not too sure if it actually was the assassination which triggered the civil war, it would have been the only time I witnessed it so far. In any case, it was a rewarding deed

[Caerfanan]

Well, I've seen the French empire turn almost completely rebel or struck by re-emergensies in three years several times. The usually conquer all of Britain, most of Germany, the Iberian and some Italian states, reach the Anatolia through northern Africa and conquer most it. By then they get involved in war with some lesser catholic faction, get excommunicated and fall apart in within a couple of years.

Yes, that's quite typical. If you loose a couple of batles and/or get excommunicated, the rebellions tend to be reemergences + rebellions + civil war. Can hurt a lot.

I've seen a powerful 12 provinces Mercia turned to 4 rebels, 4 saxons and 4 mercians just after twoo defeats when attacking.

And once a Saxon. All "Southern England + Northumbria" except two welsh provinces, while I had Pictish, Scotish and Irish Lands. I was prepared to be crushed, their king dies of old age... Without any single heir!

Oh my!!!

[Ironside]

Don't remember a particular incident, but there's nothing as sweet as when an betraying ally fails his attack on you and gets a civil war and crumbles to dust within a few year, without you even need to do something.

[Enigma13]

Just saw my first truly "swift collapse" last night playing as the Danes.

Egyptians had control of all of the Holy Lands, all of Asia Minor, North Africa up to Cynarencia (sp?), Khazar, Volga-Bulgaria, Constantinople, Greece, Bulgaria, Moldavia, Volhynia, and Prussia. They have been in a pretty much back and forth war with the English (my allies) for about 20 years with neither side really gaining or losing any territory, just exchanging from year to year. Each side will force a siege only to have it broken the next year.

Well in a move of utter stupidity the Egyptians and the remaining Byz (only in Smolensky) decided to launch a coordinated attack against me. The Byz hit Novgorod, the Egyptians Lithuania and Crimea. Fought back the attacks in Novgorod and Lithuania. In Crimea I fought valiently but ultimately ended up getting sieged. For the next year I sent my vastly superior navy to destroy all Egyptians ships. Moved stacks from Kiev to relieve the siege in Crimea, and the shored up the rest of my Asian provinces by moving troops from Scandanavia. Sea battles went largely in my favor and killed all but one Egyptian ship. Siege was lifted in Crimea. The next year without the Egyptian ships around to prevent a sea attack the English made a massive push that resulted in them taking Greece, Constantinople, Bulgaria, all of North Africa, and Tripoli. This triggered a civil war that has left the Egyptians with only 3 provinces (Khazar, Volhynia, Trebizond). In 3 years they went from controlling about 1/3 of the map to 3 provinces.

Two years have passed since the collapse and they have not been able to reclaim any of the rebel provinces and they have asked me for a ceasefire (another thing I have never had the AI do before). In the interim I have eliminated the Byz and the Horde and soon will be delivering the final death blow to the once great Egyptian empire.

[drone]

Probably the HRE, against me as the Danes. I had already taken over the British Isles and beaten the French down. I had been at peace with the HRE, but had gotten excommed when I started on the French. The HRE built a crusade in Lorraine (I think), and sent it towards a lightly defended Denmark. I was pondering how to gather troops to defend the homeland, and then it hit me, "just take Lorraine" (it had been a while since I had played ). Since I had just taken out the French, I had lots of troops in their territory... I jumped Lorraine easily when the crusade move to Freisland, and also did preemptive strikes into a couple of other HRE territories. Within 2 turns, the HRE collapsed as provinces rebelled and I could pick over the remains. I don't know what the HRE king's influence was before this sequence, but I imagine it was pretty much 0 after losing the crusade and a couple of provinces.

Lesson #1: Do not build your crusade in a province next to land owned by the intended target!

[Caerfanan]

Lesson #1: Do not build your crusade in a province next to land owned by the intended target!

I'll remember that one!

[Adrian II]

Don't remember a particular incident, but there's nothing as sweet as when an betraying ally fails his attack on you and gets a civil war and crumbles to dust within a few year, without you even need to do something.

Heh.

Agreed, this is most rewarding. It makes you realise you are an idiot, though, because after all this is nothing personal and you are dealing with a machine only.

But it feels as if it is personal.

[caravel]

Heh.

Agreed, this is most rewarding. It makes you realise you are an idiot, though, because after all this is nothing personal and you are dealing with a machine only.

But it feels as if it is personal.

Half the fun of this game is the "perfidious foe" you encounter! Nothing is better than severely punishing a treacherous faction that has stabbed you in the back.