Altered battlemaps in vanilla M:TW, anyone?

[Adrian II]

Has anyone here played with one or more altered battlemaps in their vanilla M:TW?

I think I am going to try and change some of them for myself. The Friesland battlemap for instance does not exactly match the flat, swampy landscape as it used to be. A large part of Eastern Anatolia was (and is) much flatter (interspersed with mountain ranges) than the Anatolia battlemap makes us believe. Etcetera.

This question is not just for modders, hence its place in this forum.

Maybe we can exchange ideas, or even battlemap files?

[Martok]

To be honest, the possiblity of using altered maps in the campaign hadn't really occurred to me before. Do you refer to actually editing them, or simply replacing them wholesale?

[Adrian II]

To be honest, the possiblity of using altered maps in the campaign hadn't really occurred to me before. Do you refer to actually editing them, or simply replacing them wholesale?

Editing them.

I see no need in import new types of buildings, textures or trees. I just want to rearrrange the furniture.

Maybe I will create an example for Frisia one of these days. I think it would provide players with a totally different 'battle experience', more long-drawn and spread across the map with various defendable enclaves, ditches, swamps and of course 'patches of resistance' around isolated farms.

I can then put up a screeny or two of that Frisia map, and also send the relevant file by mail to anyone who is interested.

Alternatively, an Anatolia map with just a wide, flat lush plain rimmed by a range of high mountains on the east side would be a new experience, too. Kinda like that flat map in Shogun of whatsitsname province due west of the Kanto. No hills, no woods, nothing to hide behind but your own competence...

But I'll do Frisia first.

[Kaidonni]

Heh, I've thought about this for my mod...I doubt we'd find fort, motte and bailey castles circa 295BC in the middle of the Roman Empire...

But, is it possible to create entirely new fortifications?

[caravel]

Removing the dual bridge scenarios by removing the second bridge from the maps would be a good idea. The AI is alot better defending bridges in MTW than it was in Shogun, unfortunately the second bridge is an easy exploit as the AI tends to only focus on one.

[naut]

But, is it possible to create entirely new fortifications?

Yes, I suggest asking one of the guys from Samurai Warlords, as they implemented fortifications from Shogun into Medieval

[macsen rufus]

@Kaidonni especially, Hellenic TW has some excellent maps, including some very nice castles, that are a real pain to assault

[Adrian II]

But, is it possible to create entirely new fortifications?

It is, I have seen them. But only up to a certain point. There are all sorts of 'issues' with selfmade battlemaps. If you study the modding literature carefully you will be able to work around most of those. However, the most difficult issues concern not the looks, but the functional aspect of modded structures. The big question is: can the AI deal with them, both offensively and defensively?

I have been experimenting with a modded vanilla MTW/VI battlemap for a few days now, and I have run into countless little issues myself. I made a real beauty of a Frisia test-map (a beachmap) and did a test battle on it. Instead of coming for me, the AI attacker ran straight into the sea and stayed there... I had placed some inland watery ditches in the way of the usual AI tactics, thereby unlodging its logic, so to speak. After removing them, things went smoothly.

Now I am experimenting with a 'stins' (Friesian word): an elaborate forticifation that is not quite a castle, but a reinforced Cistercian monastic settlement along a river, close to the sea and surrounded by ditches, moats, a windmill and some wheatfields. I want to make it work like a 'castle' as defined in the MTW hardcode, but without the looks.

[Adrian II]

Well, I promised to post some screenies of my experimental battlemaps, and here they are.

I hope Mods will overlook this bump post/double post for the occasion, I promise not to make a habit of it.

Numbers 1, 2 and 3 show an Early Frisian landscape with a typical reinforced monastery or well-to-do farm built on a motte. A flat, grassy countryside bordered by low sand dunes and in the distance, of course, the eternal waves of the sea.



Number 2 shows the coastline as it would have been at the time, Number 3 is a close-up of the fortification.


Finally, screenie number 4 is of an experimental bridge battlemap in Anatolia. It is not finished, like the Frisian ones, but I think you can spot the outlines of an interesting battle with excellent missile and gunnery positions on both sides.

[Caerfanan]

I think that a battle in your Anatolia would be a blast!

Congratulations, Adrian II

[naut]

Great work. I found the editor very slow and tedious so for your efforts and excellent results.

[Martok]

Very cool, Adrian II. I love that Anatolia map!

[Adrian II]

Thanks for the comments, gentlemen.

I am working on a Zeugma map right now. It could be used in Kaidonni's mod and it is meant as an encouragement for those interested in his mod.

Zeugma is the Roman name for the town of Selevkeia, founded by Selevkos I Nicator to guard the only available Euphrates crossing between Antiochia and what was known at different times as the Selevkid Kingdom, the Kingdom of Commagene and Parthia. Zeugma was always a major town and strategic asset. King Antiochus III of Syria held his wedding there in in 221 BC. In 53 BC general Crassus stormed the Zeugma bridge and was defeated by the Parthians. Around 49 AD the Romans based a legion in a huge castellum in the hills above Zeugma.

Overlooking the valley on the western side is Belkis tepe, an old temple mount originally dedicated to Tyche. On the shores on either side are the old pastachio orchards, the pride of the local peasantry. Down river from the bridge on the western side is Zeugma town, up river on the eastern side is its sister town Apamea. In the background on the eastern side will be the rugged Anatolian plateau.

Yes, I love Turkey's historical grounds, a cradle of civilisations since the Hittites.

'Zeugma' would be a bridge battle for those attacking Antioch out of (MTW province of) Edessa. But I hate no-brainer bridge battles, so I am playing a bit with the batinit set-up. I am not changing the code (which would be generic for all bridge battles), I just adapt the map. I place the bridge slightly further north on the battlemap so as to avoid the predictability of most MTW bridge battles. Before the battle can be joined the defender will have to rush quite a distance to get to his defensive positions, which forces him to adapt his army composition (more cavalry, less spears) and gives the attacker a break at the start of the game. In fact both players will be rushing for the bridge, the defender having the advantage of height and some minor fortifications, and the disadvantage of a fully built-up area his side of the bridge

As soon as I can I will edit this 'ere message to post a screenie of my effort.

[dimitrios the samian]

Hello Adrian II ,, It looks like there is a new person keen to take over were Kaidonni left off ,, Perhaps you can go to that thread and let him know of your good news ,, cheers ,, DTS

[Caliburn]

A nice project, I'd say. As a player who never plays sieges, the new buildings and stuff do not exactly seem important. I'd love to see some new basic battle maps, as after years and years of playing on the same maps the battles seem to repeat again and again. The Anatolia bridge thing looks a lot of fun, I think having lots of small hills in stead of large ones creates a lot of variety to the tactical aspect - I mean hills that can accommodate maybe one or two units, and valleys in between, making single unit movement more interesting.

It makes using Horse Archers a lot more fun, as well as allows for a series of small tactical decisions - instead of thinking "shall I place my army on a hill" it would be more like "if my main line is placed atop of these hills, I can screen my archers behind this hill so that their crossbows won't be able to shoot me".

Maybe I should give it a go myself... Nah, too lazy.