New game with Hellenic people

[goolasso]

I'm going to start a new game with an hellenic faction. I played EB only once with Epeiros (too easy) and now (with the new patch) I want to play Koinon Hellenon. Are they a challenge or not? Which is the most difficult faction to play with?

[Ower]

KH has quit a challenge, at the start, whit a big Macedon army standing right at Athens, and a strengthened garnison in Corinthos.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Hi,
May I suggest you try the Selucids. With Baktria sending out huge full stack each turn, Pontos doing the same, Egypt trying to walk past your defences and Parthia promoting rebellion in the East, the empire, although rich, often has a very high chance of serious collapse. Good luck!

[Ower]

Whether or not you experience Pontos or Bactria sending full stacks depends how much room you leave them.

[Domitius Ulpianus]

I just started a new 0.81 Koinon Campaign. I was worried the Maks were going to steamroll me on the very first turns. But to my surprise I have kicked their butts pretty hard so far. Not only Have I retain all my strting cities but I also took Korinthos and Chalkis from them !! Weird enough they moved one of their biggest stack to the north out of my sight so I don't really know what they are up to.

I have played only like 7 or 10 turns but I think Im doing great so far. Considering I lost My General in Rhodos the first turn died of old age or something hehe.

FYI Im playing VH/M with BI.exe

So go for it and see how it goes for you...good luck!

[Ower]

In me pahlava campain, the macs, are roling ower KH, They lost Corinthos, but took Athens, and now Theremon from KH. And have al their other cities.

[L.C.Cinna]

Weird enough they moved one of their biggest stack to the north out of my sight so I don't really know what they are up to.

the Epirotes stand next to their capital Pella with Phyrros and his elephants in turn one. The Macies probably went to retake Pella.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

In my newly started Mak campaign I managed to defeat Phyrros at Pella and kill him in Winter 272, and the commanding strategos was Alkyoneos - pretty much like in real history.

[skuzzy]

Epeirotes since 0.72 have been my favorite faction, you're instantly put into the middle of chaos between Mac, KH, and Rome. Also starting with the indian elephants just makes it all the more fun as you mow over entire sets of phalanx from the flank while your cavalry runs through the skirmishers. It truly is bliss.

[Tyfus]

My first game is as KH and it's pretty fun because unlike some of the more remote factions you are thrown into standoffs pretty quickly. If you don't get the right allies and use your troops effectively you will get rolled pretty quick. The key is to use your strating army to kill as many Mak armies as possible and then take one of their cities either Corinth or Chalkis. YOu can't ignore them though because they're just too powerful to start. My game is vh/m

[Tellos Athenaios]

Why KH poses a bit of difficulty:
1) You don't have real Elites (nothing more serious than Thorakitai); no hughe phalanx units - though the few you have are composed of better soldiers individually.
2) You start relatively small, in what is probably the hottest area of the map - the amount of factions that need the place...
3) You have to conquer a very widespread area
4) Your main enemies are among the most powerful, and can train real elites (not from the start, but later in game...)
5) You will face considerable piracy; and will need a navy

Have fun!

[antisocialmunky]

The Koinen Hellenon are probably the hardest one IMHO. Thery're tiny and seperated from each other at the start. However, the Maks are just really intimidating, they aren't too hard to completely steam roll.

Your unit roster isn't very powerful. However, Thorakitai are probably the second strongest Hellenic spearman (besides the Elite AS variety) and the Spartans Hoplites are the best old-style hoplite in the game and can beat most Hellenic elite/royal hoplite types. Though I'm sure a lot of people don't like that that much, I find them a good reliable unit that's best at anchoring the edges of the line doing what they do best: Dying slowly and not caring about it. Hoplitai Thorakitai take two turns to train but can actually beat the standard Phalangites that everyone else has.

However, you have a great selection of mercenaries to offset your roster. Kretans are all around the Aegean, phalangites(and LOTS of them) are everywhere Hellenic, uber horse archers are in the North East, and powerful cavalry in the Balkans.

[Olaf The Great]

If your smart, you can hold off an entire elite non-phalanx army with a small number of militia phalanxes, quality in phalanxes really only matters if your flanked or attacked by other phalanxes.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Or you happen not to occupy the favourable ground. (When quality prevends them from routing to soon.)

[antisocialmunky]

Alot of times, quality infantry just kinda 'squish' on the phalanxes spear points and start to flow around the side. So when fighting factions with lots of heavy infantry, I'd like to have atleast the standard Hellenon Phalanx that'll stay intact long enough for my flankers to get around and still be able to be effective next battle.

[Sdragon]

KH suffer from an immobile general. He's in phalanx mode and you can't take him off. If he's equipped to siege equipment at the start of a battle he can't drop it. It is power full though but it annoys me to no end. I also find it odd that I can't those very hoplites now, they seem to be just bodyguards now.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Buy a single phalanx merc unit (Iphikratous Hoplitai probably preferably), and just keep the remnants with your general - when you group them you can always select phalanx on or off then. A very good tip to remember if you are playing as KH.

[Sdragon]

Cheers TA, your are as wise as you are manly. Campaign is great so far. Seleucids are doing an odd thing. They are trying to expand everywhere at once. Problem is they are massively overstretched I tend to face stacks of 4 units at one. Pontus and Sarmatia seem too poor to do anything, Saba is was doing okay before Parthia stepped on them. Eperus on the other hand is a total monster. Loving the new economics though. I have most of Greece, half of Asia Minor, half the black sea, yet I still don't have enough troops. I have the choice of getting elite troops but I'm taking the more common troops over them mostly. Its nice having balanced armies without having to force myself to make them. :) I have yet to take a 20 stack army into battle, usualy working with 10 units or less. (usualy less)

Will be interesting to see where this game takes me.

[Ludens]

He's in phalanx mode and you can't take him off. If he's equipped to siege equipment at the start of a battle he can't drop it.

Don't they drop it when he is ordered to withdraw?

[stupac]

Nm.

[Vorian]

Just started Koinon campaign, I am not sure if I am going to survive this time. Athens is besieged and there is a full stack in Korinthos.

You should reaaly improve the Greek general, always in phalanx is quite annoying.

[Tellos Athenaios]

The Greek general is a placeholder, I believe, but for the moment you could do two things:
1) Read Teleklos post and try his solution
2) Mod the game to use the older bodyguard for KH again.

[skuzzy]

Epeiros is not easy assuming you play under their ideals. They were not really a structured imperial sect. It is true that you can gain Pella pretty easily. But the mentality is to regain Greek colonies in Sicily and Italy and fighting against the Romans early with a small economy that all goes towards citizen milita and newb phalanx then the campaign becomes quite difficult. Sure if you sacrifice Taras and go towards Mak and KH then you can pretty easily accomplish taking over Greece. This however is not my strategy of choice and by maintaining pressure in Italy and trying to overcome a highly aggressive and economically tilted enemy with Rome and trying to hold off your provinces in Greece with squabble against KH and Mak and maybe try to attack Sparte just too see if people are throwing rocks.

[Kralizec]

Buy a single phalanx merc unit (Iphikratous Hoplitai probably preferably), and just keep the remnants with your general - when you group them you can always select phalanx on or off then. A very good tip to remember if you are playing as KH.

Good advice. Though if I start a KH campaign I'll probably edit the game to give family members Thorakotai bodyguards instead.

With KH (speaking from 0.8 experience here), once you defeated the first large stack besieging Athens, you'll have a relatively easy time, unless starting finances have been nerfed in 0.81.
Unit roster wise, they're not entirely easy. Iphikratous Hoplitai can be used to counter phalangatai, and they'll take those Deuteroi on well enough, but Pezhetairoi seem to be a bit much for them. If you're up against those Elite African Pikemen from Karthadast, pray.
If you're up against varied, well composed armies you'll have to learn to do well combining all sorts of different units, since none of your units are exactly top-of-the-line. I guess that's what makes them interesting as a faction.

Epeiros is great fun for reasons already mentioned. Those Illyrian Thureophoroi and Thorakotai are absolutely badass.

The Ptolemaioi are the only Hellenic faction I've played so far in 0.81, albeit shortly. Their starting position is more difficult then in 0.8, particulary because of the reworked mining income.

Questions
1) is it intentional that the Thureophoroi now have a bonus against chariots and ellies, instead of cavalry? It was like that in 0.8 as well, but at the time I assumed that was a mistake.
2) Iphikratous Hoplitai have normal stamina, but the mercenary version has "good stamina". Is this descrepancy also intentional?